Yep, Kaz. That's the one. It is a beautiful car. And will be again.

 

Hi Dart,

Here is some data from the NADA website:

PORSCHE (German)
1987


928S4
Body Style: Coupe 2 Door
Model Number: JB092
Weight: 3,505
Low Retail: $12,300
Average Retail: $14,350
High Retail: $15,600

Low Retail Value — A low retail vehicle may have extensively visible wear and tear. The body may have dents and other blemishes. The buyer can expect to invest in bodywork and/or mechanical work. It is likely that the seats and carpets will have visible wear. The vehicle should be able to pass local inspection standards and be in safe running condition. Low retail vehicles usually are not found on dealer lots.

Average Retail Value — An average retail vehicle should be clean and without glaring defects. Tires and glass should be in good condition. The paint should match and have a good finish. The interior should have wear in relation to the age of the vehicle. Carpet and seat upholstery should be clean, and all power options should work. The mileage should be within the acceptable range for the model year. An Average Retail vehicle on a dealer lot may include a limited warranty or guarantee, and possibly a current safety and/or emission inspection (where applicable).

High Retail Value — A high retail vehicle should be in flawless condition. All power equipment should be functional. The paint should match and have a high gloss finish. The carpet and seat upholstery should be clean and have minimal wear. The engine should start quickly and run smoothly. The tires should be like new with a spare and jack. The mileage should be significantly below the acceptable mileage range for the model year. A high retail vehicle on a dealer lot should be fully reconditioned and is likely to include a warranty, guarantee or manufacturer certification and current safety and/or emission inspection (where applicable).

HTH

 

Saturday I spoke to someone from Farmer's "totaling department." There current offer is ~$11,900. That's them getting the car with a clear title. Subtract $2400 if I keep the car. This offer does not include the upgraded wheels/tires and stereo system or alarm. I wonder if they realize that their final adjusted value for the car just might be enough to cover the damages? The estimate from the second body shop is ~$10,100 including towing and storage of $425, which they will pay above the $11,900 offer.

math time (can't flush this)

$11900+$425-$2400=$9925
That's only $175 less than the current estimate. Those #'s are without adjustments.

 

Hi Dart,

IMHO, that seems absurd. See the NADA data that I provided, and get other estimates from Edmunds and Kelly that I previously mentioned. Get the loan value from your bank!!! That may be NADA wholesale. The mileage may be a problem. If the bank estimate is really higher than the proposed settlement, I don't know... ask for independant evaluation... sue...

Good Luck,

 

Why would you want to use wholesale or loan value to estimate your cars value?

Would you sell your cars before they were wrecked for wholesale or loan value?

FWIW, The NADA book is produced in at least two versions. A consumer version (can be bought at Walmart or book store) and a business version (that is sold to body shops, car dealers and banks)and the numbers are quite different.

Example:

Consumer book; loan for XXX car is 1,000.00 usd.

Business book; loan for XXX car is 1,300.00 usd.

Something else to keep in mind is where these numbers come from and the disclaimer that comes with them.

Other things to consider;

1. Is you car, above or below average?
2. How many 928's were made in your MY?
3. How many cars of your MY are still on the road and in similar condition?
4. What would it cost you to replace your car "NOW"?

A Porsche 928 and similar cars are not the run of the mill Chevy Vette or Ford Stang and can not be measured with the same ruler. Even at it's highest production levels, the 928 fell way short of mass production.

Many I think, drive their cars every day of every week and forget about what the true value of these cars are. Don't sell yourself or your car short. It won't be long from now when the Ins. Co's and their adjusters look back a laugh at how little they had to pay for the Classics/Collector Porsche 928.

Just my .928

Max

 

Dart:

It would be interesting to see the paper/facts upon which they base their appraisal. Now, if I understand correctly, they have "found" another $650 worth of value since your first post.

I agree that if you haven't you should get some independent numbers from someone who knows the 928 market. BTW, I am still attempting to hook up with a Denver area attorney for some input and possibly some help for you.

 

Thankyou, Patrick.

I'm not sure where that $650 came from either, but its just more fuel for my fire. I have estimated that the new cost of the upgrades is $5900. I wonder what figure they'll give me for the current market value.

Thanks again for everyone's input. Don't worry just yet. I've not settled on any thing or price yet. I'm still gathering coal for the fire.

 

Dart:

The cynic in me and perhaps more my experience says that the $650 really wasn't "found" at all. My guess is that the person with whom you are dealing has a certain range of settlement authority within which he is authorized to work. Unfortunately, to state the obvious, his job is to keep as much of that settlement money as possible for his employer (aka the insurer,) not to get as much as he can to you.

BTW, if you were insured at the time, has your own carrier taken a position on this? Perhaps, since they own a duty to you they would give you a fair shake, you could collect the deductible from the other carrier and then let the two insurance companies fight it out.

Just trying to look at all the angles. Hang in there.

 

Update:

The latest "offer" from Farmer's is $13094. Still too low, I think. But...

There is a revised estimate from the body shop of ~$8600. Let's see, 70% ("total" threshold limit) of $13094 is $9166. Estimate for repairs is less than the 70% threshold. They can no longer call it a total!

I've gotten my insurance co. involved as I am not interested in talking to Farmer's anymore.

Thanks all.

 

Anyone else find it ... "interesting" that Farmers has come up almost $2000 from their original offer to brother Dart? Glad you are working with your own carrier, Dart. Hopefully, they will give you a fair shake and then you can let them exercise their subrogation rights and they can deal with Farmers.

BTW, still waiting for a reply from the CO attorney I contacted. Hmmmm. Maybe he works for a firm that represents Farmers!

 

Dart and Pat, I too have a claim on my 928 that started almost one year ago. My insurance co. (will remain namless for now) Valued my 89 s4 (37,801 mi) on the high high side. This is the most important part of any estimate. Everything that was damage is getting fixed to my specs not theirs.

Remember this;
"A Porsche 928 and similar cars are not the run of the mill Chevy Vette or Ford Stang and can not be measured with the same ruler. Even at it's highest production levels, the 928 fell way short of mass production."

Just show them the facts, show them how rare your car is. I have two field adjusters working my claim and a third person in the Q office. None had ever seen or heard of a Porsche 928. This is a good thing by the way.

This is all I can say for now, I hope to have this wrapped up by mid Feb. at the latest. O-yea No lawers have been involved.

One other thing to keep in mind when dealing with an Ins. co. is post dammage values. Trust me there is money to be had here too.

Cheers

Max

 

[quote]Originally posted by PatrickP:
<strong>Anyone else find it ... "interesting" that Farmers has come up almost $2000 from their original offer to brother Dart? Glad you are working with your own carrier, Dart. Hopefully, they will give you a fair shake and then you can let them exercise their subrogation rights and they can deal with Farmers.

BTW, still waiting for a reply from the CO attorney I contacted. Hmmmm. Maybe he works for a firm that represents Farmers! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Pat,

Farmers came up the value after I faxed them a copy of the original window sticker, receipt for the wheels and tires and stereo system. Funny thing is they gave me $300 credit for the tires which are half gone and $100 for the wheels which don't really wear out. WTF! The wheels cost twice as much as the tires! Go figure.

 

Remember this;
"A Porsche 928 and similar cars are not the run of the mill Chevy Vette or Ford Stang and can not be measured with the same ruler. Even at it's highest production levels, the 928 fell way short of mass production."

Just show them the facts, show them how rare your car is.

Max,

Farmers faxed me an 18 page report from some company called CCC. This report contained their "facts" as to their valuation of my 928. Hurt my eyes trying to read this report! This report had "comps" of 928 sales from other states. They took a so called average sale price and deducted $1500 for the high miles of my 928. Basicly its as John Struthers has said, "Prison sex..."

 

It seems that my insurance co. (Safeco) doesn't think that they are my advocate in this matter. At least that's the feeling I got after talking to my adjuster. He wasn't even willing to discuss the upgrades. His valuation was ~$10,000. BS! Well, no matter how this turns out, Safeco has lost my business.

Back to Farmers.

 

It's time to put your own report together then find a dollar amount in the middle that both side can agree on.

Find out who this CCC is, who are their major customers and how they come up with their numbers. Look close at their disclaimer, they all have them. See how this one reads. If this goes in front of a judge this CCC report will most likely be the one they use. So the more you know about it the better.

Reading, research and angles

cheers

Max