Stinaris

The only problem with selling it, is that 928s aren't fetching much money at the moment in the UK.

An SE went to auction in September(ish) and didn't meet it's reserve of £5000.

So although they are rare they aren't sought after. Although in my experience 928 prices do tend to follow a sine wave. As they hit rock bottom, as I believe they are now, some classic car magazine features them with the headline "Bargain Supercar" and the prices start to rise until they peak. They then decline just as rapidly.

Vilhuer

Do you know any ROW S4 5sp which has VIN between 841470 and 841585? Do you know any '89 S4 5sp which has VIN larger than 841585? I'm trying to figure out when exactly GT production started, when 5sp S4 ended and were 5sp S4 and GT available side by side once GT was introduced.

Very interesting. What is source for 00061 being first GT engine number? If Porsche actually did do more than 400 '89 GT engines this would mean '89 GT production numbers are not known at all. As said, 1620 GT's made would be just for '90 and '91 MY and total GT production would be around 2100 cars over 2½ years.

Cheburator

Erkka,

Adrian Clark in the UK has an ex-French 1989 model year 928 S4 Manual (the GTS engined CS replica ), which came with the 2.64 gearbox, Digi dash etc. I guess he can shed some light on engine numbers etc.

Alex

928cs

No.
I know 841484 which is an automatic S4 and 841533which is a GT.

Yes.
841962
842016
842197


Good luck

I have this piece of information from someone in the UK. I ask someone I know who has worked at the factory as this time to confirm this or not. The rule seems to be that the engine number is numered as the chassis (starting with number 0061). The gearbox sequence number starts with 00501.
The engine number is the best indication of the production I think. Just because only GT's have had M28/47. Just a small reserve, the sequence certainly includes spare engines.

Samuel

Vilhuer

This easily answers question if S4 was available with 5sp after GT was inroduced. Three examples is more than enough as number of VIN's you can know is only small part of late '89 ROW production. There must be many more manual S4 hiding which were done after Gt was introduced.

If around 400 GT's and who knows how many S4 5sp were made it seems automatic gearbox late '89 MY ROW S4 is rarer than manual gearbox version. This would also increase possibility of US model 5sp S4 being made in meaningful numbers after GT was introduced.

Tech spec book says engine numbering started from 00001 for '89 MY but its data is very questionable. Then again it says numbering started from 00501 in '90-95 MY's.

00476 is very troublesome number to fit to any of these numbering styles unless its same continuation as manual S4 engine numbers. Do you know any other '89 5sp S4 or GT engine numbers. If you don't have much earlier GT number its possible '89 5sp S4, CS and GT all share same sequence which started from 00061 or 00001 despite the different engine G28/4x types between them. If this is case I would expect your own CS engine number to be much earlier than 00476. Perhaps in 00100-00200 range IIRR what its VIN is.

Total '89 ROW production should be 2428 cars. If 500-600 of these were with manual gearbox it would be fairly normal ratio even though somewhat smaller that I would expect. Unknown number of 5sp S4 + 7 CS + 400 GT made worldwide would result maybe 350-380 ROW manuals. US cars would be perhaps 120-150 depending on how many 5sp S4 were made. Since automatic engine numbers should have their own sequence which starts at 05001 it would be possible for all manual cars to share single engine number set in case '89 GT production were small enough.

This is true in case GT's actually have separate engine number sequence. Only problem I have with it is that there aren't that many '89 GT's for sale in Europe. Its possible they are sold less often than automatic cars but I would expect more of them to be on open market if there were around 400 instead of 150 cars made. This is all based on assumptions and you can easily clear this up if you have more engine numbers which contradict idea of single manual engine sequence for all variants.

We really would need site like Chuck's registry to learn more about these unknown details of 928 production. Factory don't seem to be much help as their documentation contains so many errors.

Vilhuer

VIN and engine number would tell a lot. Once there are something like 10 or so known cases pattern starts to show up.

928cs

OK, here we go for the data!

Car #1
928 Club-Sport
wp0zzz92zks840188
engine
M28/41 81K 00106 SP
gearbox
G28/55 2K 00502

Car #2
928 S4 manual
wp0zzz92zks841126
engine
M28/41 81K 00411
gearbox
G28/12 2K 00751

Car #3
928 GT
wp0zzz92zks842023
engine
M28/47 81K 00290
gearbox
G28/55 2K 00752

Car #4
928 GT
wp0zzz92zks842086
engine
M28/47 85K 00316

Car #5
928 GT
wp0zzz92zks842326
engine
M28/47 85K 00476

You can conclude from this that the engine numbers sequence are model specific, like the gearbox numbers.

Can 1989 manual S4 and 1989 GT's owners post their VIN and engine numbers?
If you have the gearbox number, it's even better.
Thanks in advance.

Samuel

Vilhuer

So it seems but is little too little data for it to be absolutely conclusive yet. For example my own '92 GTS has VIN ending NS800410 (410th 1992 euro manual GTS), engine 85N00505 (5th manual GTS) and gearbox 002068 (68th). Having so different engine and gearbox numbers indicate either engine was put aside for a while or larger batch of gearboxes were made and distributed randomly into production of cars.

CS 840188 gearbox 00502 and GT 842023 gearbox 00752 do indicate there were at least 250-300 G28/55 gearboxes made in '89 MY. Even this could barely fit into 7 ROW CS + 150ish ROW GT and 80ish US GT plus then some for spares total.

It looks fairly certain there were way more than 150 '89 ROW GT's made but more data would not hurt.

Rob Edwards

Erkka/Samuel-

Just a data point for you, I know it's not an '89, but maybe of some use to someone:

Mine is WPOJB2924LS860278, doorjamb sticker date January 10, 1990

Engine:


Gearbox:


VIN:

Hilton

My car:
1989 928 S4 manual (RHD - 927 model type)
wp0zzz92zks840934
engine: M28/41 81k 00352
gearbox: G28/12
left factory: 11th Oct 1988 (confirmed by Porsche GB)
(can get the trans serial no when I get home tonight - car is up on stands already as I'm doing TBWP - will edit then)

There's another car for sale locally..
1989 928 S4 manual (RHD)
wp0zzz92zks841137
Not sure on serials - definitely M28/41 engine and G28/12 gearbox (got photo of rear hatch sticker).

Vilhuer

Thanks Rob. Its VIN compared to sticker date is right what one would expect it to be. US+Canada VIN range for '90 MY should be 928 WP0JB292_LS860063 - 860517. Steady pace table would give proctuction dates:

Fairly large GT engine and gearbox numbers compared to US production at the time can be easily explained by much larger ROW production. 2592 + 2 + 455 = 3049 and around 400 manual cars made at half point of MY. 501 should have been first production engine and gearbox number in '90-95 MY's.

This falls well within 1/3-1/4 manual cars theory.

Does anyone have price list which is dated at early part of 1989? Is there both manual S4 and GT listed and how large price difference there is? Maybe 5sp S4 made after GT introduction were ordered before GT was available and thus they were still made. Or perhaps buyers thought GT is too raw for them which would be somewhat strange as M474 sport shocks were only option in GT too. In ROW markets at least there was info about GT's arrival in dealers as brochures were printed and all so not knowing that GT was available can't be reason for many 5sp S4 sales in later part of '89 MY.

adrian928se

Stinaris, I think you are mad if you are selling the original wheels and interior from your SE - of the 42 built, there is about 35 survived, and of those, I would say only 25 are completely original. The SE I have seen for sale recently that didn't sell, had been written off previously and had an S4 engine, so hardly surprising.

Erkka, S4 manual cars and GT's were available side by side in 1989 MY aswell as the 7 CS's, so plenty of manual 32 valve car options in 1989. I don't know any with a VIN greater than ..1580 though (mine is less than 1000). My car also came with an LSD - I will have to look out the engine numbers and gearbox numbers when I get chance.

As an aside, I've noticed that 89 GT engines (that I've seen) had 'GT' stamped on the end of the heads, but have never seen that on 1990+Gt's.

Adrian