UH-OH... Radiator leak?!
04-03-2002, 05:00 PM
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UH-OH... Radiator leak?!
While being tucked away for the winter, my GTS has suddenly started leaking coolant on the garage floor. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
I have read previous posts on the potential problems with the BEHR units - and I realize that a new OEM or DEVEK aluminum radiator is around 7-800 bucks <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
That's why I'm asking: Has anyone out there tried any of the additives being offered for fixing leaking radiators or is it a big no-no with the all-aluminum engine on the 928??
Any input is greatly appreciated!
I have read previous posts on the potential problems with the BEHR units - and I realize that a new OEM or DEVEK aluminum radiator is around 7-800 bucks <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
That's why I'm asking: Has anyone out there tried any of the additives being offered for fixing leaking radiators or is it a big no-no with the all-aluminum engine on the 928??
Any input is greatly appreciated!
04-03-2002, 07:10 PM
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I'll share my experience on cooling system stop-leak products:
Awhile ago I replaced my radiator - it was leaking in the typical area of the upper area on the passenger side. I started to notice a very slight 'sweet' coolant smell when I'd run the cabin heater. Fearing that the heater core was weeping, I added 6 of the Barrs solid stop-leak tablets (about the diameter of a quarter, 3/4 inch thick) to the coolant reservoir.
Over the next day or two the coolant odor went away - indicating that I had sealed the heater core. Then my car started overheating! I called the rad shop who added to my sense of doom by describing how modern radiators have 'turbulator' fins within the radiator tubing - these increase the cooling effect within the tubing (do a search for 'turbulator' on Google if you want to learn more about these critters). The shop indicated that I had probably caused a plug in the tubing, resulting in a ruined rad!
I engaged in a vigorous regimen of flushing the cooling system using additives and fresh water, running the engine (still running hot) then refilling with new coolant and distilled water. Very little crud was dislodged, just a very small amount of fine particulates - certainly not the glops I was expecting.
Damn if it still wasn't overheating into the red zone!
Water seemed to flow easily through the radiator and the cooling galleys, so as a last desperate measure I pulled the thermostat and did the pan of boiling water test with a digital thermometer.
Wouldn't you know it, but the thermostat had decided to give up the ghost right after adding that stop-leak, leading me to believe that I had plugged my cooling system.
Installed a new thermostat and all is well - but I ended up flushing the stop-leak from the heater core during my panicked system cleanout, so that slight coolant smell is back when I run the heater!
Bottom line, stop-leak materials are not endorsed by anybody. The rad shop advised strongly against the liquid stop-leak, saying it tends to dissolve hoses and gaskets. The tablet types actually completely dissolve and do not pose the plugging problem that I had previously feared. I recommend using half as many of the tablets as indicated on the package as an interim fix until you can get your rad replaced.
If your rad is leaking in the same area mine was, you can try Paul Jager's fix, possibly with good results: <a href="http://www.jageng.com/auto_1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jageng.com/auto_1.htm</a>
Awhile ago I replaced my radiator - it was leaking in the typical area of the upper area on the passenger side. I started to notice a very slight 'sweet' coolant smell when I'd run the cabin heater. Fearing that the heater core was weeping, I added 6 of the Barrs solid stop-leak tablets (about the diameter of a quarter, 3/4 inch thick) to the coolant reservoir.
Over the next day or two the coolant odor went away - indicating that I had sealed the heater core. Then my car started overheating! I called the rad shop who added to my sense of doom by describing how modern radiators have 'turbulator' fins within the radiator tubing - these increase the cooling effect within the tubing (do a search for 'turbulator' on Google if you want to learn more about these critters). The shop indicated that I had probably caused a plug in the tubing, resulting in a ruined rad!
I engaged in a vigorous regimen of flushing the cooling system using additives and fresh water, running the engine (still running hot) then refilling with new coolant and distilled water. Very little crud was dislodged, just a very small amount of fine particulates - certainly not the glops I was expecting.
Damn if it still wasn't overheating into the red zone!
Water seemed to flow easily through the radiator and the cooling galleys, so as a last desperate measure I pulled the thermostat and did the pan of boiling water test with a digital thermometer.
Wouldn't you know it, but the thermostat had decided to give up the ghost right after adding that stop-leak, leading me to believe that I had plugged my cooling system.
Installed a new thermostat and all is well - but I ended up flushing the stop-leak from the heater core during my panicked system cleanout, so that slight coolant smell is back when I run the heater!
Bottom line, stop-leak materials are not endorsed by anybody. The rad shop advised strongly against the liquid stop-leak, saying it tends to dissolve hoses and gaskets. The tablet types actually completely dissolve and do not pose the plugging problem that I had previously feared. I recommend using half as many of the tablets as indicated on the package as an interim fix until you can get your rad replaced.
If your rad is leaking in the same area mine was, you can try Paul Jager's fix, possibly with good results: <a href="http://www.jageng.com/auto_1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jageng.com/auto_1.htm</a>
04-03-2002, 10:49 PM
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Michael!
DON'T use the stop leak things!
-My '85 S2 had a leaking end cap when I bought it. "Oh yeah.." the butteater PO said to me. "I'll give you $400 off the price because of that...
MM Hmm. Yeah, right. Well, I took it to a shop, and $200 later my Behr plastic radiator was fixed. For about 8 months...
And when the other end started leaking, I decided that I didn't wish to mess with it again and bought a welded aluminum radiator from Devek. $800, but no seams and thicker to boot. It looks fit for a Winston Cup car... Remember, Devek's white car did something like 211 mph in the Nevada desert with one, which means that it actually went FASTER than Mark Martin, etc. at Daytona....
You've bought an expensive car; most if not all the work can be done by you on the cheap....but NEVER sacrifice on parts!!!!!
Normy!
DON'T use the stop leak things!
-My '85 S2 had a leaking end cap when I bought it. "Oh yeah.." the butteater PO said to me. "I'll give you $400 off the price because of that...
MM Hmm. Yeah, right. Well, I took it to a shop, and $200 later my Behr plastic radiator was fixed. For about 8 months...
And when the other end started leaking, I decided that I didn't wish to mess with it again and bought a welded aluminum radiator from Devek. $800, but no seams and thicker to boot. It looks fit for a Winston Cup car... Remember, Devek's white car did something like 211 mph in the Nevada desert with one, which means that it actually went FASTER than Mark Martin, etc. at Daytona....
You've bought an expensive car; most if not all the work can be done by you on the cheap....but NEVER sacrifice on parts!!!!!
Normy!
04-04-2002, 12:17 AM
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As other have said don't even think about it.
Usual place for the radiator to go is by the passenger side hose.
New side tank is $100 from 928intl, a local radiator shop should be able to fix it for $100 or so. If they have done MB they'll be familair with the radiator.
My local shop were very helpful and it is still holding up.
Chris
Usual place for the radiator to go is by the passenger side hose.
New side tank is $100 from 928intl, a local radiator shop should be able to fix it for $100 or so. If they have done MB they'll be familair with the radiator.
My local shop were very helpful and it is still holding up.
Chris
04-04-2002, 03:52 AM
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Chris--
Really, thats all good and fine, and I respect your opinion completely....but:
A 1985 VW Scirocco Turbo...
A 1992 VW Corrado VR6...
AND...
My current 1985 928 S2-
Have taught me that Behr should stick to paint and NOT build silly plastic radiators! I drove these cars in Orlando's lunatic heat, so I guess I have given them the ultimate test, but still...leave the plastic for milk bottles!
Normy~
Really, thats all good and fine, and I respect your opinion completely....but:
A 1985 VW Scirocco Turbo...
A 1992 VW Corrado VR6...
AND...
My current 1985 928 S2-
Have taught me that Behr should stick to paint and NOT build silly plastic radiators! I drove these cars in Orlando's lunatic heat, so I guess I have given them the ultimate test, but still...leave the plastic for milk bottles!
Normy~
04-04-2002, 11:35 AM
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Ive had the end tank seal go on mine also, passenger side like usual. Removed it my self, took it to a radiator shop with a new seal and tank in hand and they fixed it. No probelms in Vegas summers so far!
DONT USE STOP LEAK FOR GAAAAAWDS SAKE!
As for the plastic end tanks. I believe if you look under the hood of quite a few new cars you will see the same set up! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
DONT USE STOP LEAK FOR GAAAAAWDS SAKE!
As for the plastic end tanks. I believe if you look under the hood of quite a few new cars you will see the same set up! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
04-04-2002, 01:08 PM
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In no particular order,
Thanks Randy, Normy, Chris & Tony for your input!
You've made the point very clear, so I'm not even going to go near these chemicals.
I guess the first shot at solving the problem will be to take the car to a radiator shop and see what can be done.
Secondly, well, there's most likely no way around getting a DEVEK radiator soon. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
Thanks again, guys! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Thanks Randy, Normy, Chris & Tony for your input!
You've made the point very clear, so I'm not even going to go near these chemicals.
I guess the first shot at solving the problem will be to take the car to a radiator shop and see what can be done.
Secondly, well, there's most likely no way around getting a DEVEK radiator soon. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
Thanks again, guys! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
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04-04-2002, 06:46 PM
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if it's merely one of the atf or oil cooler fittings use thread seal on the threads and hylomar on the flat portions. the socket is huge mm though. if it's the seal between the plastic end cap and rad thats about $100. you might think about some new lower rubber mounts as they become petrified over time.
04-04-2002, 08:09 PM
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DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER
Never, never, ever, under any circumstances, put a wrench on any of the radiator hose fittings without counter-holding the fitting in the radiator! Do not allow the fitting in the radiator to move any at all!
Never, never, ever, under any circumstances, put a wrench on any of the radiator hose fittings without counter-holding the fitting in the radiator! Do not allow the fitting in the radiator to move any at all!
04-05-2002, 09:52 AM
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i had an entire atf fitting removed to stop a small coolant seep and noticed no deleterious effects nor was i the subject of any zuffenhausen tractor beam or parallel universe transference.
04-05-2002, 10:02 AM
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Removing and replacing a radiator fitting is OK, and a normal operation.
Not counter-holding a radiator fitting as you loosen or tighten the line fitting will normally cause the line to twist and possibly shear off, and will twist the fitting in the radiator, possibly causing a coolant leak or even breaking the radiator tank. None of these are good things.
I repeat - never put a wrench on a radiator line fitting without firmly counter-holding the radiator fitting.
Not counter-holding a radiator fitting as you loosen or tighten the line fitting will normally cause the line to twist and possibly shear off, and will twist the fitting in the radiator, possibly causing a coolant leak or even breaking the radiator tank. None of these are good things.
I repeat - never put a wrench on a radiator line fitting without firmly counter-holding the radiator fitting.
05-04-2002, 04:43 AM
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Just to follow up and conclude on this thread:
Firstly, the leak got worse and worse so eventually, I decided to pull the radiator out.
No obvious leaks or other signs of leakage could be found - sigh!
Not wanting to take the chance of putting it back in the car (and only re-tightening the drain plug) - I took it to a automotive radiator specialist for pressure testing.
Sure enough, one of the fluid channels (passing from one side of the rad to the other) had a large corroded hole in it - and was obviously beyond repair.
But hey! - at least here in Europe - the center metal piece is a stock item. So they took off the two plastic side tanks and fitted them to the all-new metal radiator core.
Looks brand new - and only cost me about $ 250. Still a h... of a lot cheaper than getting a new OEM unit or DEVEK's aluminum (aluminium - if you're in Europe
) alternative.
All I have to do now is to get my hands on the proper coolant (apparently ethyleneglycol without silicate and phosphates) - and I'm ready to roll again...
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Firstly, the leak got worse and worse so eventually, I decided to pull the radiator out.
No obvious leaks or other signs of leakage could be found - sigh!
Not wanting to take the chance of putting it back in the car (and only re-tightening the drain plug) - I took it to a automotive radiator specialist for pressure testing.
Sure enough, one of the fluid channels (passing from one side of the rad to the other) had a large corroded hole in it - and was obviously beyond repair.
But hey! - at least here in Europe - the center metal piece is a stock item. So they took off the two plastic side tanks and fitted them to the all-new metal radiator core.
Looks brand new - and only cost me about $ 250. Still a h... of a lot cheaper than getting a new OEM unit or DEVEK's aluminum (aluminium - if you're in Europe
) alternative.All I have to do now is to get my hands on the proper coolant (apparently ethyleneglycol without silicate and phosphates) - and I'm ready to roll again...
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
05-04-2002, 10:41 PM
#14
Michael
I did the same to my 89GT in S Africa. A local radiator shop made an excellent job of rebuilding my radiator using a copper core, but it's all black painted and looks very good. It was even cheaper than your job but 18 months on it's working perfectly and the car actually seems to run a couple of degrees cooler(about 83C)on the open road. Long-term I don't know if a copper core on an aluminium engine is the right thing though many cars have it. Does anybody have any input on this.
I did the same to my 89GT in S Africa. A local radiator shop made an excellent job of rebuilding my radiator using a copper core, but it's all black painted and looks very good. It was even cheaper than your job but 18 months on it's working perfectly and the car actually seems to run a couple of degrees cooler(about 83C)on the open road. Long-term I don't know if a copper core on an aluminium engine is the right thing though many cars have it. Does anybody have any input on this.