AFAIK the AAV gets 12V all the time its running, but may be wrong here. This warms up the bimetallic strip to shut the door, and after the engine is warm its heat keeps it shut. I seem to recall some bimetallic devices have contacts that cut off the 12V supply when engine heat keeps the strip fully deflected?
The thermotime switch also has a bimetallic bar heated by 12v and engine heat to limit the CSV time to 8secs (its stamped on the body along with operating temp - Wally info) to prevent flooding. The fact that it wont rev until warmer sounds like its lean, which sounds like the WUR cold control pressure is too high - can you get a gauge on this?
Lately mine has begun to fail to start when hot after stopping for 5-10mins. It fires briefly and dies, continued cranking gets no firing at all. If I then wait 5-8 minutes it starts fine....who did I lend my Watson to ?
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

 

What kind of gauge...a bar gauge? What kind of pressure should it be showing? Is there a way to adjust it? I do need to throw a multi meter on the connector to the AAV JUST to make sure I have current.

Do the AAV's go bad often? I am new to the CIS world so I am trying to catch up with this stuff. I tried my best to fix it up but not sure if I helped it any when it comes down to it.

 

My 81 Euro also has the same problem
1st start of day..2 min of Very rough idle. Can not give it gas as it makes the problem worse.
After it has "warmed up" it runs fine.
Restarts through out the day just fine.

I have had the fuel distributer and warm up reg replaced.

 

Get book by Ben Watson 'Tuning Bosch injection' from Amazon, best $15 you will spend. Has a great section on CIS as well as L and LH. Get a gauge set from JC Whitney, ~$50-60. Cold control on CIS is critical to cold starts - <= 20 psi @55F or similar, rising to 45-50 hot. If cold control is high, start will be none or lean and poor. If hot control goes high, large power loss will be obvious. High control is usually casued by blockage in the warm up regulator (WUR) . In the meantime DONT mess with the mixture screw on the distributor body (hole in front of air cleaner) -its sensitive! AAV seem to go off with age - mine did anyway. Not hard to fix as above. WUR that go off are bad to fix if its more than just blockage. Mate of mine is in this now, he cleaned his WUR with an ultrasonic cleaner, went from cold 50+psi to 20psi immediately, but he had played with mixture screw, so it still doesnt run. My wrench tells me refurbed distributor bodies seem to work OK, but refurbed WURs dont fare as well....
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

 

I will get on with checking the pressure. It seems now though that after stretching the spring in the AAV, the car idles way high...above 2K. I cleaned the WUR as one of the first things a month or so back. Funny thing is that when I got the car before I started to mess with anything and remove all the vac leaks, it started up no issues. I'm getting a tad frustrated at this point. I tried to reset the idle, but that didn't do anything so I think the door on the AAV is not closing now. I will get back in there and try resetting it.

 

Before i went any further, I wanted to do some double checking and testing. I had by-passed the AAV when I went to start the car for the first time today. I pulled both hoses and connected them together. Made no difference. but pulling them apart while the car was idling killed it....uhm, that'd be a major type vacuum leak!
Anyway, this told me that the gate was open at start up, though I already knew this...just double checking. I also got 12v when cranking to the AAV.

I knew the CSV was fine as I had extensively checked that out the other day. The next thing was the WUR. I cleaned this back when I did a rubber refresh. However, I wanted to really understand how this thing worked, so I pulled it off the car and opened it up. I figured out how the vacuum on it all worked, and recognized it worked similar to the AAV. Upon close inspection of the points and throwing a 9v battery to it, I noticed a broken wire and deteriorated insulation. WTF...a ground wire was broken. I fixed these items and put it all back together. The car seemed to fire up quick enough, but I won't know until tomorrow when I crank it up for the first time again. I did notice the idle speed went way down, so that has to be readjusted from what I screwed up yesterday. I am hoping this was the key to my starting issue. I will report back tomorrow.

Some WUR porno for you...

Once you carefully open the unit up, you can see where everything fits. Just remember the pin fits into the hole between the fork and the cap/hat sits on the pin then the two springs fit inside one another and sit on the hat. The bottom side of the springs fit into the metal grooves on the non gasket side of the center piece....FWIW.

 

Mine is an 83, so WUR may be slightly different, but I dont remember all those capacitors in mine, although its been a while now. It is an -86 suffix, so should be the same.
Curious as to the effect of a broken wire - if it stopped the strip from heating up due to 12V, the mixture should stay rich longer than needed, as it would take longer for the wur to get hot due to conducted block heat, so I would expect it to get a sooty exhaust and stumble for a while until fully hot?
Somewhere here there is a word doco that I wrote a few years ago with pics of the inside of a WUR...
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

 

The car seems to start up quicker now, but it still takes several tries. I will turn the key and the engine will crank and then just barely catch enough to release the starter gear. I do this several times and each time I do the engine gets closer to running on its own until finally it will stay running. However, it has to run for a few minutes before you can give it throttle and get any kind of revs out of it. No question at this point it is a gas issue as I have deducted that cranking feeding the system with gas until finally there is enough to keep it running. I think the next step is to pull the cold start injector and see if it sprays when the car is cold started. As stated in a previous post of mine, I do have voltage to all of the components and I did clean everything. I do still have to order a tester from JC Whitney, but I am doing what I can in the meantime.

On another note, after the car is fully warmed up, throttle response is quite nice and the idle is very even, so I have this all sorted out.

...a step at a time.

BTW, I forgot to mention in my last post over the WUR, there is no blockage in the gas flow. I can blow through the valve and air will come out the other valve.

 

You can blow through the WUR, with it assembled? What lungs you must have ! Or do you mean the vacuum fittings?
Next time its fully cold, try bridging the fuel pump relay for 5 secs to get pressure up to the system, then hit the starter. If its starts promptly, I would deduce that the pump is failing to build pressure as quickly as it should - check delivery rate is ok (~1350ml/30secs) - if not ok,I would replace filter, look for other reasons for this.
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

 

No, I meant the the gas line. I did it when it was out and apart. I'll give the relay by-pass a shot and see what happens.

 

OK, I think we're onto something. I jumpered the fuel pump relay and rather than it taking 20+ tries, the engine cranked a couple of times and wanted to start, but on the 3rd or 4th try, ran. My thoughts on not having the fuel line pressurized with your suggestion of the relay jumper seems to have done the trick. Of course this could be coincidental, but given the history of trying to start the darn thing so many days now with the same results and now this little test, tells me I may just have a failing pump...or relay...or clogged fuel filter. First thing is to check the filter and test the relay. When jumping the relay, the pump didn't whine and seemed to flow smoothly. Enough pressure could have been built up past a clogged filter to pressurize the system. Hmmmm. So how can I test the relay to see if it is OK? Could the "green" wire be suspect? I don't have one as mine is black.

 

To check relay, swap with another of correct type, see if symptoms change, OR see if you can check volts at pump with relay making circuit - this might be difficult organize though. Also try to check amps being pulled by pump - when I last checked mine (old pump) it pulled 7A, which IIRC is about right. If the amps are high, look for a high resistance somewhere between relay socket and pump connection. You could also run a direct +12V to the pump (carefully!) and see if it starts quicker. Some cars have a pump relay that runs for a few seconds on turn on, then goes off until it sees pulses indicating engine turning...wonder if one of these might fit a shark? Maybe its done by the ECU?
As a matter of course, if you dont know when filter was last changed, do it asap, if only to eliminate that as a cause. Also when you get gauges and Watson, check the time it holds pressure, which will tell you if there are other problems...accumulator, check valve etc. The infamous 'green wire' is from the distributor pick up to the spark box, so I doubt thats a problem here if the car does run ok once it has fuel. Having said that, if the spark pulse line to the relay socket is dodgy, that could cause the relay to not bring the pump in properly. If I'm not mistaken, an ordinary relay might work in that socket, but not protect you against pump running after engine stop in an accident, and it would run all the time the ignition was on.
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

 

not familiar with the 928 CIS system in specific, though it sounds to me like two things are happening, one the fuel accumulators diaphram is broken and will need to have the accumulator replaced, as well either the WUR is out of spec, or the AFR is set too lean.

Have you set the CO at idle? what was it set to?

 

I guess we're getting down and dirty now. Both posts are good advice. I do not have the tools at the moment to check the CO or the fuel pressure. Porken came by a couple of times and helped me set the timing, idle and AF mixture. I am leaving for L.A. on Sunday, so I won't be back until the following week to fool with this some more. I think I will have enough time on Saturday to swap out the fuel pump, filter and relay as I have another car sitting in the garage. I just hope the fuel pump is the same as I haven't checked. I did pull the filter and it didn't seem clogged, but nothing beats a fresh one.

Not having the tools to check the initial settings on the primary components is like pissin' in the wind, so it's trial and error until I can get what i need. In the meantime, I can still do some fiddling to see what the cause and effect is and mark some more possible trouble spots off the list.

Incidentally, after pulling the filter and losing the fuel prime, I tried for quite some time to get it fired back up. Took too much time and wore the battery down. Even with a jump it wouldn't catch. I still think I have a fuel delivery issue. Again, Saturday will give me some more answers.

Thanks guys...until the next post.....

 

Is this the kit I need?
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...016344/c-10101

Are there any there test kits I should get?