Azir Khan

The refrigerant in my 97 S4 is running low. I can see a lot of bubbles in the sight glass. So its time to either add R12 or retrofit the system to R132a. Interdynamics of Brooklyn, NY sells a R12 to R132a retrofit kit <a href="http://www.id-usa.com/retrofit.htm." target="_blank">http://www.id-usa.com/retrofit.htm.</a> The kit contains three cans of R132a gas, filler hose, adaptors to convert the R12 fittings to R132a style fittings and a label. All this for a $29 at the local auto parts store. The sales man at the store recommended that I have the R12 gas evacuated and have them pull a 25lbs vacuum and then charge the system with this kit. Has any body tried this kit ? any recommendations will be appreciated.

Thanks

Greg86andahalf

Don't do it. (I'll get into that a bit later)

First, tell us about your system.

Is your A/C generally working well now?

Have you had to add R12 in the past? if so, how often?

Greg

Dozman

Azir,

You need to evacuate to 29.97, and down to 500 micron and below to ensure your system is free of moisture.

Bill 86.5 928s

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dosen't the oil in the compressor need changing as well...If I remember previous threads I'm sure there's more to the retrofit than injecting new freon 134A..Bill

jim912928

Hey...i just did some research on a R12 substitute called Duracool12. They advertised in the back of Excellence magazine and from what I've read is a compatible replacement for R12 and you don't have to change out the oil. A few people I know have tried it with success.

This weekend should be the telltale sign. case of the stuff was only 70 bucks.

Azir Khan

Greg,

I bought the car in January this year and the AC at that time seem to work OK. Since we had a very cold and long winter therefore I did not have an opportunity to use the AC till now. I noticed that there was a oily deposit just behind the sight glass on the radiator indicating that there was a leak and some oil had escaped. However the oil was not fresh and as such difficult to tell if this was a recent leak or a slow leak spanning over several years.
Since getting the car I have replaced the heat valve (old one installed wrong way and missing the internal O ring) and vacuum actuators. The air flow is good, compressor runs when I start the AC but the cooling effect is minimal. I can hear a "hissing" sound from the vents when the revs build up, so I think the AC system is OK, just lacking freon.
The interdynamics kit claims to have additives to seal up leaks, and compressor oil that is compatible with our R12 oil.

Thanks, Azir.

Rich9928p

Regarding Jim's "Hey...i just did some research on a R12 substitute called Duracool12. They advertised in the back of Excellence magazine and from what I've read is a compatible replacement for R12 and you don't have to change out the oil. A few people I know have tried it with success.

This weekend should be the telltale sign. case of the stuff was only 70 bucks.
--- I found this ------------
from: <a href="http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html" target="_blank">http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html</a>

1. What are HC-12a® and OZ-12®?

HC-12a® and OZ-12® brand hydrocarbon refrigerant blends are flammable refrigerants. Their primary components are hydrocarbons, which are flammable substances such as propane and butane

2. What is the legal status of hydrocarbon refrigerants such as HC-12a® and DURACOOL®?
It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994. Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is also subject to the same restrictions.

HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore prohibited from marketing this blend as a substitute for any ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is prohibited under the Clean Air Act.

&gt;&gt; I'm not a big fan of Propane or Butane in my AC system. YMMV ... BOOM

jim912928

FYI...R134a is also flammable and has an auto ignition at around 1328 degrees, likewise duracool also does at around 1635 degrees. Both have a risk as far as i can tell.

Any comments anybody?

Earl Gillstrom

I will repeat again. NEVER, NEVER, install any freon that has a sealant in it.
Sealants work for small leaks. BUT, if you ever have a big leak they seal the complete system. The fix for a large leak is COMPLETE replacement of the COMPLETE AC system. YES, that means compressor, evaporator, condensor, all hoses and metal lines and expansion valves etc.

Also, NO AC shop will ever work on your AC system again. They have sealant identifiers, and when sealant is found, they will not work on your AC, because the sealant will destroy there expensive tools.

It is not difficult to identify and fix leaks.

NEVER USE SEALANTS. Did I mention that it is not a good idea to use sealants?

Also, most AC shops will not work on AC systems that do not have R12 or R134a in them since they need a dedicated system to work on each different referigant. There is no good reason to use anything else. The substitutes do not work better than R12 or R134a and most cost about the same or more than R134a.

Greg86andahalf

Azir Khan,

Thanks for the info.

Sounds like your system is in pretty good shape. If I were you, I would have the system topped off with R12 (real R12, not freeze 12, or any other blend, you want the real, virgin R12 freon!!) by an experienced A/C person who has a manifold gauge set and knows how to read the gauges. With R12, there may be a couple of bubbles in the sight glass now and then, but a real steady stream does in fact, indicate the need to check the system with gauges and add R12 properly.

I would add UV dye while this work is being done. It can be added through the charging hose when the system is being topped off. With the dye in the system, you may have an easier time hunting down the leak, if there is one. Remember, R12 systems are designed to purge freon through the stock hoses a little bit over time. Topping off was a common thing back in the day.

I would clean the fins on the condenser by flushing water through the condenser fins with a garden hose from the engine side to push out whatever dirt and road stones have collected. I used a pic to gently remove stuck road stones from the fine. As I say over and over airflow across the condenser is important to proper cooling temps at the vents!

Re: the retrofit kit at the local auto parts store. You should do an archive search here on rennlist for R134 conversions and A/C not working threads. We have debated and discussed this topic so much in the last year. There are differing opinions, but I can tell you that those who really know and work on auto A/C systems will tell you that there is much more to converting a R12 system to R134 than a $30 kit will provide. There is a reason the pros call the $30 kits "death kits". If you have no luck in the archives, let me know and I'll point you to the threads.

Greg