Question from a future Shark Owner
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Instructor
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Question from a future Shark Owner
Hello all! I have a question about the 928. I'm trying to find a GTS, but I'm not having any luck. Is there a huge difference between the S4 and the GTS, and if so, what are they? Thanks in advance.
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If you don't need the extra power of the GTS, consider a '91 GT (manual) or S4 (automatic). The '91 models have lots of the little refinements of the '93 GTS, except
- the extra power
- the wider rear track and fender flares
- 17" wheels
- the reflective strip between the tail lights
If you can live without those features, you will save approximately $12-15k - about the value of the "half 928" you already own ;-)
What price range were you thinking of? Manual (harder to find) or automatic?
- the extra power
- the wider rear track and fender flares
- 17" wheels
- the reflective strip between the tail lights
If you can live without those features, you will save approximately $12-15k - about the value of the "half 928" you already own ;-)
What price range were you thinking of? Manual (harder to find) or automatic?
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Instructor
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From: Phoenix, AZ
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Nicole:
<strong>If you don't need the extra power of the GTS, consider a '91 GT (manual) or S4 (automatic). The '91 models have lots of the little refinements of the '93 GTS, except
- the extra power
- the wider rear track and fender flares
- 17" wheels
- the reflective strip between the tail lights
If you can live without those features, you will save approximately $12-15k - about the value of the "half 928" you already own ;-)
What price range were you thinking of? Manual (harder to find) or automatic?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">"Half 928"? I prefer to think of it as the 928 NEEDS the extra 1/2 engine incase the 1st half breaks... 8-) But seriously, I didn't know about those differences, and I would obviously prefer the standard tranny, but since I already own 3 other toys ("yes dear...I told the nice person here on Rennlist that they are MY toys and you're left to shlep around in a 4x4"), an automatic would be ok as well. I don't plan on tracking the car, so I can do without the extra power. I was thinking of between 20K and 25K USD for a nice example. Can you adapt the 17" wheels on a GT/S4? And in terms of reliability, are the problems of a GT/S4 different or the same as that of a GTS? The reason I ask is that I know my 951 has its "areas of attention" like motor mounts and timing belts....and would like to know about the 928's special idiosyncracies are. Thank you Nicole in advance for your time and effort. Regards, as always.
<strong>If you don't need the extra power of the GTS, consider a '91 GT (manual) or S4 (automatic). The '91 models have lots of the little refinements of the '93 GTS, except
- the extra power
- the wider rear track and fender flares
- 17" wheels
- the reflective strip between the tail lights
If you can live without those features, you will save approximately $12-15k - about the value of the "half 928" you already own ;-)
What price range were you thinking of? Manual (harder to find) or automatic?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">"Half 928"? I prefer to think of it as the 928 NEEDS the extra 1/2 engine incase the 1st half breaks... 8-) But seriously, I didn't know about those differences, and I would obviously prefer the standard tranny, but since I already own 3 other toys ("yes dear...I told the nice person here on Rennlist that they are MY toys and you're left to shlep around in a 4x4"), an automatic would be ok as well. I don't plan on tracking the car, so I can do without the extra power. I was thinking of between 20K and 25K USD for a nice example. Can you adapt the 17" wheels on a GT/S4? And in terms of reliability, are the problems of a GT/S4 different or the same as that of a GTS? The reason I ask is that I know my 951 has its "areas of attention" like motor mounts and timing belts....and would like to know about the 928's special idiosyncracies are. Thank you Nicole in advance for your time and effort. Regards, as always.
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From: Nashua, NH
Your price range is in the GT area. The s4s are a little less and the GTSs are more. Many S4/GT owners have installed 17" wheels. The only difference in reliability is related to age, not differences in problem areas. Sounds like the 951 and the 928s are similar in the problem areas.
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I agree with Ernest. I'd rather buy a well cared for '91 GT or '91 S4 than a rotten GTS in that price range.
In order to upgrade to the 17" wheels you have to disable the tire pressure monitoring system. It's a pain in the behind anyway, so that's not really a loss. There are simple procedures posted on the web to do this (in my case, the previous owner had it done).
I've had both '91 GT and '91 S4 and prefer the S4. The GT was the fastest car I've ever owned, but the S4 is way fast enough. I prefer the more relaxed driving style in the automatic S4 - the GT's clutch and long shifter travel did not impress me.
Besides, I'm small and had to move my seat too far forward to depress the cluch all the way. That made for an odd driving position - sometimes I hit the knee bolster under the dash when letting out the clutch.
Oh, and I will never have to worry about replacing a clutch on the S4...
In order to upgrade to the 17" wheels you have to disable the tire pressure monitoring system. It's a pain in the behind anyway, so that's not really a loss. There are simple procedures posted on the web to do this (in my case, the previous owner had it done).
I've had both '91 GT and '91 S4 and prefer the S4. The GT was the fastest car I've ever owned, but the S4 is way fast enough. I prefer the more relaxed driving style in the automatic S4 - the GT's clutch and long shifter travel did not impress me.
Besides, I'm small and had to move my seat too far forward to depress the cluch all the way. That made for an odd driving position - sometimes I hit the knee bolster under the dash when letting out the clutch.
Oh, and I will never have to worry about replacing a clutch on the S4...
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From: Phoenix, AZ
In that case, would you happen to know the answer to a few of these questions:
1)who made the S4 tranny? Was it Mercedez?
2) how many speeds does it have?
3) Other than the increased power, flared fenders and 17" wheels, were any of the interior anemities different on the S4 than the GTS? (like climate controls, cruise, etc...)
1)who made the S4 tranny? Was it Mercedez?
2) how many speeds does it have?
3) Other than the increased power, flared fenders and 17" wheels, were any of the interior anemities different on the S4 than the GTS? (like climate controls, cruise, etc...)
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From: Louisville KY
It is a 4 speed trans.
Interiors are pretty similar, although I think that there were more options available on a GTS. The little stuff like CD changer etc...
Also, if I am not mistaken, the GTS has much larger brakes.
Interiors are pretty similar, although I think that there were more options available on a GTS. The little stuff like CD changer etc...
Also, if I am not mistaken, the GTS has much larger brakes.
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From: Pacifica, CA--Land of Fog
And not to make this into a manual vs. automatic debate, these cars are very different when you compare an automatic s4 to a Gt.
You REALLY need to drive them both first. You'll see below what my preferences are.
Oh, it will be slower than your 944 turbo.
You REALLY need to drive them both first. You'll see below what my preferences are.
Oh, it will be slower than your 944 turbo.
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From: Herndon, VA
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by George Boss:
<strong>In that case, would you happen to know the answer to a few of these questions:
1)who made the S4 tranny? Was it Mercedez?
2) how many speeds does it have?
3) Other than the increased power, flared fenders and 17" wheels, were any of the interior anemities different on the S4 than the GTS? (like climate controls, cruise, etc...)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">1) Borg Warner (same one used in most MBs).
2) 4 forward, 1 reverse.
3) The GTS models do not have a high intensity windshield washer system, but they do have a micron air-filtration system. Also, starting in 1994 the tire pressure monitoring system (RDK) was deleted. YMMV.
<strong>In that case, would you happen to know the answer to a few of these questions:
1)who made the S4 tranny? Was it Mercedez?
2) how many speeds does it have?
3) Other than the increased power, flared fenders and 17" wheels, were any of the interior anemities different on the S4 than the GTS? (like climate controls, cruise, etc...)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">1) Borg Warner (same one used in most MBs).
2) 4 forward, 1 reverse.
3) The GTS models do not have a high intensity windshield washer system, but they do have a micron air-filtration system. Also, starting in 1994 the tire pressure monitoring system (RDK) was deleted. YMMV.
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Stock for Stock, perfect driver against perfect driver....they could probably be close to each other. This is speaking about the '88-'89 Turbo S, not the earlier models. In real life however the GT (IMO) is much easier to launch and launch consistantly over the Turbo. You blow the launch in the Turbo against a GT and the only thing you are likely to see is its taillights.
Modified is a different story....as Turbos are very easy to modify as we all know.
Modified is a different story....as Turbos are very easy to modify as we all know.
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From: Pacifica, CA--Land of Fog
Yeah, stock its close. Just add a chip, however and its not close anymore. Add more than that, and its a walkaway b/c of the weight difference. The chips are so cheap there is little reason not to get them as the service costs are only marginally higher with proper prevention.
My Audi turbo is street reliable, track unreliable. Of course, it was a stock 150 hp engine and now its 290 with 25lbs of boost!!
My Audi turbo is street reliable, track unreliable. Of course, it was a stock 150 hp engine and now its 290 with 25lbs of boost!!
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The air filtration system on theo GTS was introduced in 1994.
From 1991 on, the interior had the following changes:
- HWAC with recirculationi option
- new parking brake handle (can't get caught in it as easily)
- new shifter in GT models
- S4 had cast Design 90 rims (same as GT) instead of the narrower forged flat dish
- better sound insulation (thicker foam, foam in new places, etc)
...
I am not aware of any interior changes for the GTS models, except the above mentioned air filtration.
You can upgrade a '91 model to the larger GTS brakes and rims.
From 1991 on, the interior had the following changes:
- HWAC with recirculationi option
- new parking brake handle (can't get caught in it as easily)
- new shifter in GT models
- S4 had cast Design 90 rims (same as GT) instead of the narrower forged flat dish
- better sound insulation (thicker foam, foam in new places, etc)
...
I am not aware of any interior changes for the GTS models, except the above mentioned air filtration.
You can upgrade a '91 model to the larger GTS brakes and rims.