15 minute instrument pod removal update and instrument light bulbs for an OK price
 

I already wrote a post on how to remove the instrument pod without removal of the steering wheel before. I had to do it again yesterday to change some light bulbs in the instrument cluster. So I took some pictures for all non believers, it can be done! I also found out what bulbs Porsche uses for the gear indicators and all other back lights. This should make the well known Radioshack bulb replacement procedure unecessary.

First we start with the pod, a couple of fasteners have to be removed.

1. Take off the rubber grommet between the dashboard and driver door for the air vents. Behind there you will find a 10mm nut, remove.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1913mod.jpg
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1912mod.jpg

2. Remove the alan bolt under the steering wheel.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1915mod.jpg

3. Remove the carpet from the center console. Behind there you will find two 13 mm bolts, remove.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1916mod.jpg

4. Remove the 10 mm nut under the RDK ECU.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1917mod.jpg

The knee protector panel can be removed now.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1918mod.jpg

Under the pod you will find 2 plastic covers held in place with two philips screws, remove them and the covers. 4 alan bolts come in view remove those too. Make sure that you keep them at the correct spot, they have three different lenghts.

Left side (towards door)
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1919mod.jpg

Right side (ignition key lock)
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1920mod.jpg

Remove the rubber grommet around the ignition key lock.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1923mod.jpg

The pod is loose now. Move it gently over the ignition lock and pull it towards the steering wheel. The instrument cluster is loose too and is only held in place on the right side, inside the pod. To remove push it gently in direction of the driver door.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1925mod.jpg
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1924mod.jpg

Now the tricky part the removal of the 4 connectors in the back of the cluster. The 4 plugs are kept in place by little levers. They are in a horizontal position when locked and pushed up and down to release the connector. By pushing the levers away from the connectors they are releaased and can be removed. When you assembel everything later just push them on the plug and move the levers back to the original position. They will pull the connector back on to the CB. BTW the connectors are coded, so they can't be pushed on to the wrong CB position.

Connected and levers in horizontal position
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1926mod.jpg
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1929mod.jpg

Cluster removed and levers circled in red
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1931mod.jpg
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1930mod.jpg


The removed instrument cluster, turn the 4 fasteners in the back by 180 degrees and it can be opened.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1932mod.jpg


Back view of the light bulbs.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1933mod.jpg

All the little yellow light bulb holders are 12V 1.5 Watt bulbs (total of 10). They are responsible for the gear selector light, computer display back lighting in white and red. For the red light (total of 4)Porsche uses the same bulb and covers it with a red rubber cap.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1935mod.jpg


The blue light bulbs are 12V 1.2 Watts (total of 16), they are for all the little warning lights (blinker, airbag, ABS... )

Know the bad news: The light bulbs are f$%^&*% expensive, the cost more than 9 Euros in Germany EACH!
Is there a way out? Yes there is!
The industry specification for the bulb is: B8.4D
I found them in Germany @ www.autobeleuchtung24.de

If you enter the specification in Google there are some suppliers in the US too. Like: http://www.tekmaterial.com/ or http://mdmetric.com/
Catalog: http://mdmetric.com/prod/flosser/Flo...talog_2006.pdf
I have never ordered from these guys but MDMETRIC sells the bulbs for 93 Cents each (I paid 92 Euro Cents in Germany). That is a fair price but you guys have to check it out in the US first...

The 4 back light bulbs (brown bulb holder) are wedge base bulbs. Specification W2,1x9,5 W3W. Porsche uses 2 Watt bulbs, I replaced them with 3 Watts.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1936mod.jpg

That's all guys. I thought I share my knowledge with you and save you some money if necessary. All light bulbs in the cluster are more than $ 250 if you buy them at the dealer. Now you can get them for al lot less. Please let me know about your ordering experiences with US based companies and what you paid.

Assembly of the pod in reverse order BTW. Be gentle on the alan bolts under the pod! I use some Loctite on those, to prevent future rattles.
Tip: Use some tape on the left side of the instrument cluster to hold the 2 rubber grommets in place during assembly.

BTW: When the cluster is out it is also an ideal time to clean the connector contacts on the CB, with a white eraser :)
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1934mod.jpg

Awesome writeup my good friend.
I will check on the US supply of the bulbs

That is a fantastic thread!! Thanks so much for the pictorial walk through of what & how to do. Extremely helpful for someone like me with less experienced mechanical abilities! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Hi Roger,
Let me know what you find out!

My supplier here in Germany has them all in stock. It would cost a $ 25 TOTAL (incl. shipping within Germany) to change ALL bulbs. We just had a guy in Germany who changed all bulbs for little more than 200 Euros (about $ 270) with OEM parts from the dealer.

Schocki - excellent pod write up.

Equiv bulbs can also be sourced here - already done it from Mouser Elect. probably about the same price as you note - was several years ago. hey also have the mini bulb "condom" things in multiple colors.

I say equiv. because they have a different base color - but funct. the same.

Alan

That leather dash is pretty!

Euro spec :)
All leather except for the pod. Heated seats but no rear AC.

Nice to know it can come off with the steering wheel left alone. I did notice that in comparision to the MY89 pod, there is a lot more space between it and the dash.

Note

I bought Porsche's 4 main bulbs, and they sent me 3W bulbs as well. So anyone that needs the 4 main bulbs and wants to stay stock at 2w, it aint going to happen. I bought 4 from an auto parts store and the 4 Porsche ones. They are identical. The older style with the plastic at the ends apparently is NLA.

$25 for all the little lights is a great buy. I kinda laughed when i heard the price per bulb. I got like $5 or $6 per bulb. I'm glad theres a cheaper source

Schocki;

Yes, GREAT write up. I like the color of your intake..what manufacturer/source and color description is it? I would consider painting my 86.5 wings in the same.

Mike

I bought the intake tubes first from Ebay first (Garritty from 928 Motorsports I think) and got the powder color matched. It is red textured finish.

Assume this write-up works the same regardless of the MY? Thanks.

Way to go Schocki! Another great contribution to the 928 knowledge base. Very cool. -Ed

Beautiful write-up! I'm a surgeon, and there's some operations I do from the front or the back or sometimes both. Your procedure reminds me of some of the "minimally invasive" things we do. Nice documentation too.

the write up is not for all MY.

It covers 90-95 928's (airbag cars)

Awesome post Shocki! :bowdown:

I picked up a replacement digital dash for my '89 yesterday so I can get rid of the original one that has Miles on the speedo (its an import) and go with one that has only km's on it, so the timing couldn't have been better.

Can anyone confirm that this write-up does *not* apply to non-airbag cars with the same digital dash?

I haven't got as far as looking into dash disassembly just yet - have a few other fish to fry first for an emissions test in 2 weeks so its not a priority until then, but I'll be taking plenty of pics when I do it.

Hilton.

The Radio Shack bulbs are for the early, soldered in, bulbs:
https://members.rennlist.com/porken/PRND32Bulbs.jpg
thread

Here's a list of all the 78-86 (-88 pod) OSRAM bulb #s:
https://members.rennlist.com/porken/Bulbs.jpg
thread

The procedure is similiar, but its not the same.

89 has a different pod, but it may attach the same way. For 89, you do have to remove the steering wheel. Also the 90 plus cars have the knee bolster pictured. The earlier cars do not.

Interesting as I have had the pod off 3 times in the last couple of weeks.

First question - how are you possibly able to pull the side console panel down to reveal the 2 13mm head bolts??? The driver seat MUST come out to get to the rear screw...otherwise you cannot just remove the front screw and one plastic kick panel screw to do this.

Second question - Do your wire harnesses have THAT much lead, that you can pull the pod forward like that???

Third question - how are you able to re-install the cluster with the pod on. Unless you want to snap the plastic piece that holds the rubber shaft with washer, you have to insert from below.

I have been inside of these dashes too many times over the years and the only cars I have found it possible to do what you did is the OB's.

I am amazed!!!

Also, I did a change to LED which is wayyyy cheaper, MUCH MUCH better lighting and MUCH more reliable than the original filament bulbs. A write up is coming in a week or two.

Hallo Schoki,

sehr schoen gemacht! Respekt!
Wenn ich das mit dem roten Silikonhuetchen richtig verstehe, koennte man ja mit andersfarbigen Huetchen die ganze Beleuchtung in anderen Farben gestalten, oder? Mir waere blau ganz lieb......

Ich wollte meine Ansaugspinne und Ventildeckel auch ueberarbeiten. Hast du dafuer auch so ne tolle Anleitung? Evt. auch mit Teilenummern fuer die benoetigten Dichtungen etc pp?

Dank und Gruss AUStralien

Martin

I pulled my pod somewhat by accident honestly. I was trying to loosen something and in no time i had the whole thing moving around i figured, ahh what the hell lets just pull it. Didnt need remove the wheel or anything. The cluster in mine stayed attached to the electrical connections until the pod was removed, then i could get access to the back of it to remove the cluster.

Sorry I can't. My car has an airbag. Removal of the airbag wheel is always tricky and you have to disconnect the battery. If your car is without airbag, than take the wheel off, 2 minute deal. The procedure will still safe you time because you can leave the switches in the pod.

If your removing the pod always disconnect the battery, once you fry an errant hot wire Lord Lucas will reward you with smoke. Nice writeup and great pictures

I did my 89 today. I didn't remove the steering wheel - well I tried but the nut was just too tight. The 89 pod is fastened by two hex bolts in the front (just behind the steering weel) and two allen bolts in the back (in the pod corners). When loose you need to clear enough space to free the instruments. I tilted the pod to the right and down. The pod needs to get over the ignition. With a little bit of prying it will work.

I noticed that the bulbs for 'engine check' and 'cats' warning lights are disabled. Same in Schocki's pic. Anyone know why?

Cheers

1st
Yes you can by lowering the front portion of the seat (mine are elctric with memory). Take a long enough screwdriver and the screw comes right out.

2nd
The instrument cluster is already disconnected and the wiring on the switches are no problem.

3rd
The rubber part stays on the pod right hand side. The left side comes out with the cluster, I push the rubber pieces with washer back in place before I isntall the cluster and secure them with some elctric tape.

"I have been inside of these dashes too many times over the years and the only cars I have found it possible to do what you did is the OB's. " Schocki's question: What are OB's???

LED's are fine BUT they are not street legal in Germany. If you replace the bulbs with LED's you lose the automatic brightness adjustment feature of the photo sensor. Plus you can't manually DIM the lights anymore.

My interior lights are LED's, the shifter gate back lighting is LED and the "GTS" on the door sills is EL tape.


BTW I have done this on other cars too (all with airbag) with no problem! Rog100 was my first "customer" with a cold solder spot in his oil pressure gauge. Pulled the cluster out of his GTS in a couple of minutes and fixed the oil pressure gauge. Roger can back me up on this!

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?:confused::eek:

Anyway, cool write up thanks. Ironicaly, I was just planning on going outside and tackling this very thing right after this, kooky. Timing is everything.

Do you know if all that applies to an OB? Also, is the car driveable with the pod off? I'm planning on doing some work under the center console as well, and I assume it will take more than one day. Planning on golfing tomorrow ya know.:thumbup:

You have done it again :grr: I have to tap my dash ever so lightly to make the tack and speedo work more often then not, lights are dim and I love to cause myself pain. Will this work on an 86 or should I just do it the old fashon way ?
This is the last part and only part that has not been removed and was waiting for an excuse this maybe it.

Well, I guess because I have sport seats, it is impossible to get to the rear screw.

OB means "Old Bugger"...British term I guess, but it stuck and everyone uses it.

LEDS do not require the need for dimming. That is the beauty of them. They are not a brighter light, they are a vivid light. I don't know anyone who ever used the dimmer wheel anyway...other than to try to make their already dim filament lights brighter, but to no avail.

Thanks for the info though. I am going to try to work around the issues that I am aware of. I know the cluster harnesses are not long enough...I was referring to the switch harnesses. I don't recall mine being that long, as it was tough to pull them through the holes enough to connect the switches.

Shocki,

Great revision of your write-up now with the pics, they say so much more than words! I would like to look at my oil pressure indicator in detail. What is the correct way to take the instrument panel apart?

Thanks.

Robert, 1994 GTS midnightblue, the Netherlands

I have done the same/similar proceedure with my 84. Its pretty easy to get everything out. Its much trickier to get it all back together but its not too bad.

Flip the cluster open after you turned the 4 black fasteners in the back. Than you will see this view:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/22904525974.jpg

The printed circuit with the bulbs is held in place by 8 standard sheet mtetal screw. Remove them and be carefull when you remove the printed board in the back. Now you have full access to the back side of your instruments:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23110305729.jpg

The white plastic is held in place by black plastic clips. They are located around the ouside of the cluster. Gently push them in and separate the white plastic cover. Here is what you see afterwards, tha areas where the bulbs sit and the actual instrument contacts:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23110305712.jpg

My oil pressure ground solder point was cracked and gave me a very erratic gauge. Re-solder all instruments and you should have no problems for many years...
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23110305790.jpg

FYI: The other side of the printed circuit board with the lamps in place. I would also recommend to carefully check the solder point of the connectors on the circuit board. They could be also the cause for erratic gauges. Just re-solder everything as a precaution :)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23110305738.jpg

If you want to know how to replace an instrument or how to pull the needle of an instrument let me know...

Keith - I have updated my main dash bulbs to 3W - plug in as above and the dimmer is useful now - I can have quite bright or more comfortable... I agree that stock after 13+ years is too dim on much below max.

I considered but rejected LED's because they don't dim appreciably with the control and I actually like that feature.

Around town I like bright dash - out on country roads I prefer dimmer lighting in the cabin.

Many people don't realize the dash lights are always on with the ignition - they are brightest when the marker/headlights are off - and the brightness is then controlled by the photocell at the centre top. When you turn the markers on the dash lights dim to the level set by the dash brightness control - and even the max level here is lower than the lights off level. Since the bulbs run at low voltage they tend to darken with age - they are well worth changing out anytime you are in the pod for any reason (ditto LCD x 8 and the high use warnings/indicators: turn signal, drive, high beam, RDK...)

BTW I too can remove my console sides (both sides) with seats in place.. need to move back/forth & down. It's tight but do-able with slight bolster compression

I would have thought you could do the same with Sports seats by moving them to the right front/back spot where the side bolster is lower...

Alan

Schocki:

Boy, is post #31 apropos. I'm trying to resolve erratic oil pressure readings in a 90 S4. Wiggling the pod affects them. Cleaning the 4 main plug contacts didn't help (initially I thought it did, but that is what "erratic" is all about), so it looks like I need to go deeper. THANKS AGAIN for this guide!

I will try again, as I do not want to go through the fire drill every time to get to the cluster.

As for the LED's, I really do think there is a mis conception over them. When the headlights are turned on, they DO dim! When you use the dimmer switch, they dim, but only slightly. However, I don't see the necessity in having a dimmer with the LED's, they are just vivid and non distracting. To each his own. ;)

I will be doing a write up this week on LED's and have photo's.

Let us know what you find out, Roger's GTS had the same symptoms. Seems to be common....

Shocki,

Thanks a lot for post #31! Currently doing MM and steering rack revision but I will let you know about my erratic oil pressure gauche. Seems I'm not the only GTS with this problem!

Robert 1994 GTS midnightblue, the Netherlands.

Nice write-up -- *subscribes*

Getting the solder gun hot as we speak. Just cleaning the contacts from the oil meter posts to the circuit board and making sure they were tight did not help. Could not see any bad joints, but I'm going to reflow them per Schocki's advice.

:)

Success! In post 31 you can see Schocki removed the oil pressure guage competely. On Shocki's advice, I left it in and reflowed the two puddles of solder on the back of the guage. On the green PCB, I reflowed the solder holding the odd-looking connectors through which the posts on the back of the oil pressure guage insert. The board trace from one of the connectors may have had a bit of a break right next to the connector. I bridged that with some solder. Thanks for this thread!

You joined the rock steady oil pressure gauge club?

I love it when a plan comes together!

Yeah, driving along and suddenly seeing zero oil pressure wasn't the most comfortable feeling in the world.:eek::eek:

Can you still influence the behaviour of the gauge by pushing against the pod or cluster?

No, not any more.

I'm sorry to hear that!
Check the wiring to the connectors and look at the wiring diagram what cabel is responsible for gauge. Is the oil pressure idiot light on when you turn the ignition on?

Have you tried to connect a small battery (like 4.5 Volts) to the gauge when the cluster is out? Try to isolate the problem....

Schocki: I missed your reply. Maybe I wasn't clear. The oil pressure meter has been working perfectly since the reflow..

Good to hear!
Finally, another electrical Gremlin bites the dust!

Good job and good to know that I was able to help you :)

will be using these great instructions this weekend :)

Doing the ignition switch... Yay, fun!!

Thanks for the detailed post!!

Since I take the easiest of procedures and make them hard, I'd like to add one step to Shocki's most excellent instructions. After removing the knee bolster and the two metal brackets held by the 4 allen bolts, turns out there's a FIFTH allen bolt. It's on the left side, and runs up through the 2 rubber isolating donuts that sit in a U-shaped channel on the cluster and hold its left side. Like so:

https://webfiles.uci.edu/redwards/pu...ide%20bolt.jpg

I suspect that the 10-20 people who have done this since Schocki posted it figured this out as a matter of course, it took me a few minutes of headscratching as to why my pod was still stuck. The other tip is that the cluster needs to be moved to the left to get it off the right side mount, then you remove it from behind the pod by moving it back to the right, towards the midline of the car.

Now I just need to find out why two of my previously working odometer bulbs (that I didn't replace, ay yi yi) blew up after re-installation......

Roger- how's that comprehensive lamp replacement kit coming? :)

It was brought to my attention that the pictures of this post were missing. Updated and ready to go again! Sorry for any inconvenience.

I haven't read all posts for this thread and somebody may have answered this already. Anyway, I replaced all my pod lights for less than 20$. I found the osram/sylvania mini bulbs at Allied Electronics. I can't recall the parts number but I can do a search if any of you is interested.

Michel
928 S4 89 Row

Post the part #'s.
That would be helpful for all owners in the US :)

All the bulbs I have replaced were Osram/Sylvania mini incandescent lamps T-1 1/2. The lamp model # is 2352MFX6. They're 0.49$ each!

Here's the Allied Electronics reference :

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...320%2f2352MFX6

Here's the Osram/Sylvania mini lamp reference:

http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProd...ting/ECatalog/

Attachment 351596

Attachment 351597

Michel.

Michel:

Did you replace ALL the yellow blue and green based bulbs with these or which color in Schocki's picture? [Thanks for restoring the pics, Schocki!]

https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1933mod.jpg

If I recall correclty:

-The 4 cluster illumination bulbs pull out from their socket and can be found at a car part store;
-The blue sockets are lower intensity bulbs (1.2 W I think). I managed to trade the inoperative blue bulbs with other blue bulbs on the board that were intented to be used on devices not installed on my car (ex: airbags). I'm pretty sure you can find them in the Osram catalog (see link). The 2352MFX6 model certainly fits in replacement for the blue ones. They are 2.0 W. They will be brighter and hotter too. I can't tell if it can harm the board or not.
-The 2352MFX6 bulbs were used to replace all yellow and light green socket. Four of them have red bulbs. Since the red bulbs were not available, just pull the rubber jacket off the old bulbs and stuff them on the new clear bulbs.

When replacing the bulbs, screw and unscrew them a couple of times to make sure the contact is made correclty. Otherwise you may end up rebuilding the pod and have a few new bulbs not lighting up because of bad contact with the board.

Hope this helps.

Michel.

I just made a search in the Osram catalog. The blue socket bulbs appear to be a 2473MFX6 model. I'm not sure if they are easily available.

Michel.

Michel - Thanks for the clarification.

Michel:

Would this be the replacement for the blue based (1.2W) bulbs?
2351MFX6
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...754%2F2351MFX6

According to this site, it cross-references with 2473MFX6 you suggest.
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b...%7Cbx8.4d.html

The 1.5W (yellow, green ) appear to be 2452MFX6, whereas the 2352MFX6 are 2W.
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b...4d%7ctube.html

They do appear harder to find, but here's one possible source under $1.
http://www.aboveallmotorwerks.com/Pr...1391260_S.aspx

I replaced all the higher watt rated bulbs (light green and yellow) with 2352MFX6 2W bulbs. It works perfectly. If I compare the A/T lever position (PRND32)(2W) with the warnings lights (1.2W), they don't appear that much brighter. (I'll provide a picture tonight).

I slept on this and took the car to work this morning during darkness. On second thought, I don't see any problem replacing all bulbs with those easy to find 2W. Since they don't light up all at the same time, all the time, I don't think the heat or the current draw would have an effect on the board itself. I would still use caution and do some test (ie watch for a fuse blow when all lights up at startup).

I'll take the bulb/socket measurments with a micrometer tonight and compare it with the Osram specs. I'll post the results for comparison.

Bye.

Michel.

Bill,
I found some of the replacement bulbs at AZ Autohaus website. Might take a look there as well.

Gary Knox
West Chester, PA

I paid nearly $6.00 bucks a piece from one of the big three for these bulbs! Glad I only needed five.

Michel - yeah, I agree the wattage should not be a big deal with these bulbs.

Gary - AZ Autohaus search for instrument bulb for my car comes up with 2721MF8, which is a T2-1/4 rather than T1-1/2.
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b...w%7Cb8.3d.html

The glass is different diameter and the base design is B8.3d, different from the B8.4d. Not sure which is correct yet for which socket. It is 1.2W.

I believe that link for the bulb above is only for the bulb (sans base). On my 91, the buls are soldered to the connectors on the base (not sure if this si the same for other years). Anyway, I ordered a BMW part that had the same specs from Pelican.

1.5W Part # 62-11-1-391-260-M97 @ $1.00 ea.
1.2W Part# 62-13-1-383-311-M97 @ $2.00 ea.

So far they work great.

Bill,

I compared all the measurments of the 2473MFX6 (cross reference to 2351MFX6 1.2W) with an actual 2352MFX6 2W light bulb/socket. They are the same.

Here are some pictures of my pod with all the 1.5W (light green and yellow) replaced with 2W lamps. The blue ones are unchanged.

Hope it helped.

Michel

https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1239711492
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1239711535

Andrew/Bill,

Yes - I now remember that it was the BMW bulbs that I ordered as well. I took a chance (at that price), based on the pictures, and they turned out to be correct. I also put dimmable LED's from "SuperBrightLEDs.com" for the backlighted instruments. Used the "daylight" model, and they work great.

Gary Knox

Schocki: Great thread, thanks for the writeup.

Bill, I have an intermittent speedo problem, no reading sometimes. When I tap the pod or push the trip odo reset it comes back to life. Would this be a reflow of solder to a connection or something else?

Well, since tapping on the pod has an effect, yes, I would pull the pod and speedo and reflow the solder points.

There may be some confusion generated by reading my earlier posts and some of the various MFX6 part numbers. Suffice it to say for the moment that ALL of the instrument panel bulbs from 89 on, with the exception of the 4 backlight bulbs, use the same T 1.5 (or T 1 1/2) base. The yellow and green base ones, used for LCD backlighting and shift indicators, are all 1.5 watt and the blue ones, used for the warning lights, are 1.2 watt. Here are sources for both, although the base color will not match.
1.5 watt:
http://www.aboveallmotorwerks.com/Pr...1391260_S.aspx

1.2 watt:
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...754%2F2351MFX6

Andrew shows the BMW part numbers above in message 64, ordered from Pelican.

Michel used 2W bulbs and shows the panel appearance above. That should work fine too.

Michel - are the bulbs here for the LCD in stock colors? - not sure if the look of this is based on camera color artifacts or if you tried to change the color of the LCD display?

I had speculated a long time ago that one could try to use alternate colored bulb covers (I have red, green, yellow & blue + there are more) in the LCD though it seem to have a default amber tint even with white light...?

Yours looks rather interesting...?

Alan

Alan,

The computer display looks purple indeed! It's a camera color distortion. It's rather amber in real.

I can tell for sure that the red colored computer text for warning message comes from clear 1.5w light bulbs covered with some kind of thin red rubber coating (it can be removed and placed back on new clear bulbs). This being said, any other color coating on the bulbs will change the display appearance.

Michel.

Great write up and pictures. What do you guys recommend for a complete set of new bulbs? I might as well replace them all when I pull the pod. Should I get them with the bases or as bare bulbs?

Except for the 4 larger backlight bulbs, the bulbs are soldered in to their bases.

First, thanks Schocki for the great write-up and everyone else for their contributions. It was a big help, as I needed to take the pod apart to clean the grounds and the electrical connections, trying to resolve my erratic digital dash, fuel, speedo, and tach.

Question: when re-assembling, I noticed this connector was not attached to anything. I did not unhook it during the pod removal, at least not intentionally. I don't see what it connects to. Does anyone know?

It's probably for the reset botton in ROW models? Don't worry about it.

I've resurected this thread because I want to know if I can get the part number for some of the bulbs that don't appear in the text.

I have an 86, and the PRND32 bulbs are on the right side of the display. I know that these are solder in bulbs of about 1 watt, but it would really help if some knows a vendor number before I have the pod apart.

I also would like to redo the instrument cluster lamps with incandescent ones that are either red, or have the red cover. I can get stock white bulbs, but would need the little red covers.

Please don't bother with the advice on LED replacement, as I already have that info, I would like the PN for the PRND32 bulb, and the red cover for the instrument cluster illumination bulb. Thanks.

For a buddy's 88, I used Radio Shack 272-1154 as others have before. It worked very well.

if your going to take the time to remove the instruments to get to the bulbs i would suggest that all of the bulbs be replaced although park and drive usually see the most use

Reasonable suggestion. Have you actually done it? :) One was enough for me.

Yes I replaced all of the ones in the Yellow car and that was the only one that i have done or rather have had to do.
Once I saw the amount of time it took to get to the bulbs i got all of them at Radio Shack.
The soldering took all of 10 minutes

bulb auto shift indicator GTS
 

It took me five minutes to get the one feaking bulb out of the plastic body and ready for de-soldering. So, I called 928 Specialists. They are $2.25 ea. + shipping. PN 999 631 027 90. MDmetric has Flosser bulbs (449103) for $1.48 ea, but a $50 minimum. That explains the price from our 928 suppliers.

The bulb with holder sells here for $1.25.
Why take the bulb out of the holder?
Read the thread now I know why 8>)
Bulb only sells for $0.75

Steve,
If the bulb is for your GTS you need the bulb and holder and no soldering required.
Roger

Light bulb equivalents to the ones Schocki have reported:

16 of B8,4d/BX8,4d, 12V/1.2W
===================
Bosch 1 987 302 243 (1.2W)
Hella 8GA 007 997-171 (1.1W)
Hella 8GA 007 997-121 (1.2W)
Hella 8GA 007 997-131 (1.3W)
Hella 8GA 007 997-141 (1.5W)
Lucas LLB286THO (1.12W)
Lucas LLB286THB (1.2W)
Lucas LLB286THBL (1.2W)
Lucas LLB286THBE (1.5W)
Osram 2473MFX6 / 4050300170886 (1.1W)
Osram 2351MFX6 / 4050300170824 (1.2W)
Osram 2431MFX6 / 4050300638416 (1.3W)
Osram 2452MFX6 / 4050300170862 (1.5W)
Philips –
Sylvania –
~€0.96

4 of W2W/W2,1x9,5d, 12V/2W
====================
Bosch 1 987 302 223
Hella –
Lucas LLB297
Osram 2820 / 4050300170138
Philips –
Sylvania -
~€0.40

Schocki,
Thank you for your brilliant how-to post. Worked like a charm.

You're very welcome! Thanks for the feedback :)

Since this "fifth bolt" issue just came up again, I figured I'd update this thread with a photo that shows all five bolts (from my '90 S4):

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8...1-08-0051b.jpg

Yeah, I thought there were 5. Even with all the bolts out, I never succeeded in getting the pod out with the steering wheel still in place.

Do you remember where you had difficulty? This really is an easy procedure, and once you've succeeded at it, it just gets faster and faster each time. One little tip (can't remember if it was mentioned), is that you'll need to move the steering wheel/pod all the way down when you're ready to remove the instrument cluster; otherwise, it'll be pinned between the pod cover and the windshield.

This procedure really does deserve the "Bill Ball stamp of approval". :)

Attachment 594837

In Bill's case he has to remove the trans to get the pod out.
Sorry, Bill could not resist.
Bilal:icon107:

Thanks for the great instructions. Did mine this afternoon and took about 20 minutes. Could not ask for better instructions.

Harvey

:) your welcome

I should update and give Schocki's quick pod removal guide my official shortcut stamp of approval. Since my first failed attempt at doing this back in 2011, I have managed to figure it out. So, the steering wheel (and the tranny) can stay in place. It takes a bit of patience and finesse to get the pod to clear the ignition switch, but I have managed to get it all done under 15 minutes like Schocki said.

:thumbsup:

What were you fixing?

Other people's cars. In one case, the ignition switch and light switch (pod was pulled up out of the way, but not completely removed). In another case I was replacing the odometer gear.

Fantastic Post! And Now I need help...
 

Well as a down right amateur fiddler I found this post fantastic! All went great till re-assembly. Here's my symptoms on the 88 A/T: all lights for auto indicator work fine. signal left signal right work fine. Tach is erratic, oil gauge is erratic. Speedo is dead...gas gauge dead... light switch, hazards all knobs function but do not light up :confused: clearly I goofed and something is loose? Went through it once again but maybe I missed something? Any advice?
btw these were all things that DID work prior to dis/re assembly. Many Many thanks!

Check your connections of the plugs behind the cluster. I think one of them maybe not seated all the way.

https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...pim1933mod.jpg

In this pic there are 4 beige coloured holders (circled) located above 4 yellow bulb holders.

What do the beige lights illuminate?

I have a burned out light behind the right side red computer digital display. I'm guessing that would be one of the yellow holders with a light bulb with the red cap?

Rog - do you carry these bulbs? How much are they?

Thanks.

There are two rows of four bulbs related to the "information display": the upper row is what provides the more common amber backlighting, and the lower row is what provides the infrequently-used red backlighting.

The other side of the PCB looks like this:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-S...1-05-0152a.JPG
(large version)

You can see where the two rows of bulbs mate with the back of the information display:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g...1-05-0266a.JPG
(large version)

If you're going to replace bulb(s) anyway, you might want to consider upgrading to LEDs (see "Converting Porsche 928 Interior Lighting to LEDs", which is also useful for just learning more about the '89+ instrument cluster).

Can anyone confirm this procedure works on a non-digital pre airbag pod (88 and earlier)?

It appears that maybe the wheel has to be pulled to get access to the 5 allen head bolts down under.

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...cs-part-i.html


I guess it doesn't hurt to try.

<deleted>
Sorry.

I've done it on an 87 and I don't recall there being 5 Allens on that car - just 4. Regardless, I don't see the steering wheel being an impediment to getting at the Allens. My problem originally was that even with all the Allens out, I could not get the pod to clear obstructions until I removed the steering wheel, but I finally managed to tilt and tug just right to get it to clear the ignition switch, etc. with the steering wheel untouched. I recall the cover over the turn signal assembly needs to be removed and that requires a bit of finesse as well with the steering wheel still on. All this said, removing the steering wheel on a non-airbag car is rather quick and easy.

I feel like he's already done the job for me!
Now, I have to find a speedo that goes above 85.

Thanks

wow i have been looking for this type of a thread for ages. half my dash lights don't work so needed to find a way to fix them.

do you know or think this will work for the 1989 S4 euro model (uk)???:rockon:

Should work without problems, but the method was especially designed for cars with airbag. Not all of us have access to a Hammer to clear possible airbag faults if you remove the steering wheel.
You have it easy, take off the steering wheel. Takes 2 minutes extra... :)

If you're getting into all that stuff anyway, consider upgrading to LEDs. See:

• Converting Porsche 928 Interior Lighting to LEDs (a rather lengthy PDF document)
• Interior LED Changeover (uhm...Looooong) (an old, but useful thread; make sure to read it through to the end, as the later posts include more up-to-date information than the original post)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T...07-C1-0312.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e...1-05-0457a.JPG

Agreed! There is no single light bulb inside my GTS left. It makes a huge difference.
It is finally like the factory should have delivered it (IMHO) :)
Sorry the pictures are a little out of focus and overexposed. In reality they are just cool!!

Hi Shocki - Was there a thread on your window/sunroof switches? I remember Paul Champagne switches a couple years ago but I never seen ones like yours. They look stock--and awesome! Did a search but no results. Thanks!

They were made by a fellow PFF forum member in Germany. They are made out of painted white plastic. The symbols are lasered and look OEM. The lighting is El-tape.
The switch bases remain and the top part of the switch is replaced. That is the tricky part because the switches are not designed to be taken apart.
Roger sold them too, with little success only. To difficult for the average 928 owner.....
Last set was sold this week in Germany....

Its much easier on your car - no airbag.

If you're not sure, look for Dwayne's write-up on removing the pod - its more similar and shows the bolt locations more clearly from memory. RHD is pretty much the same, and with no airbag until '93 in the UK, its largely the same as Dwayne's write-up for all UK 87-92.

Its not hard - its just a fear thing (like most first-time jobs on a 928) :)

Undo the steering wheel (27mm socket) and put it on the passenger seat. Then grab your philips screwdriver (for the plastic panels), 10mm socket (for the steering switchgear clamp) and 5mm allen key (to undo the pod bolts), and have at it. Be very gentle with the small plastic clips on the rear of the cluster - a bit of wd40 or silicone spray will help if they're stuck fast, and some gentle wiggling back and forth.

Caution when taking apart POD
 

Great write up! One word of caution when taking the allen bolts out of the two front brackets. The rear allen bolt is a long bolt (i.e. about 3 inches long) and they thread through an aluminim frame into a nut that just rests on top of the frame. When you thread these back for the reassembly, make sure you gently thread them because in my case I pished too hard and knocked the nut into the area under the dash. This was a PITA to retrieve.

...Now I have to figure out why I have extra parts :)

- matt

I remember getting very frustrated by that nut on top of long bolt last time I took pod out. It's very easy to know it off, so I glued the thing down on the frame, and no more cursing after that!

Hi all,

I have an '85 and my dash pod has a couple of cracks, plus the "D" indicator is out on my dash. Will these instructions work for me in removing the pod completely so that I can swap in a new one that I bought? Also, are the bulbs plug and play on the 1985, or are they soldered in? Thanks!

Yes, it works too. But you have a regular steering wheel without airbag. Just remove the wheel.....

OP in PDF format.

Great post. I was able to move my pod to get to the top screw when replacing my ignition switch this week using this info. So thanks !

:biggulp: Your welcome!

Schocki,
You're back!
Some say you never left.....::D

True! I really miss my DFW 928 gang and wrenching sessions at the Tyson ranch I left in 2006....13 years ago can't believe it myself. But my GTS is still my companion. I just replaced the HVAC box entirely, due to an evaporator leak. Got a good used 94 unit from Roger. I guess my 92 is the only one in the world with a pollen filter 😎 now

The later digital dashboards use a regular circuit board for the bulbs. Most likely you are right and one of the four yellow bulbs is not working. They are always on.
To check, just trigger the red bulbs by intentionally displaying a warning message The four red bulbs don't see a lot of use. Pull the connector of the coolant level sensor on the expansion tank and jump it. This will trigger the "low coolant warning message on the display. If this is shown correctly now in red, one of the yellow bulbs is blown.

1980 Instrument Cluster mystery area
 

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0d529c1fce.png
what are the 3 holes behind this mystery tape? do the 3 holes have any use?
Can anyone help with any thoughts on why a previous owner taped up these three(3) holes?
or what those three holes are used for?

please see below photo of a 1980 instrument cluster i found on the web.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...12b7a71209.png
In this picture the three (3) holes are not "cut."

On my actual instrument cluster the holes were cut and taped over with the light green tape.

Any ideas much appreciated.

Shine a light through the holes and see what is visible on the instrument front. Looks like extra space for an instrument, like the three nuts on top in your picture.

A fuel consumption gauge is located there, on some model years, not sure if applicable to 1980.

Thanks. Does anything go in any of those three holes? a bulb?
How do i ensure my fuel consumption gauge works?

What does your cluster look like from the front? Does it have a fuel consumption indicator (like below)? I'm assuming your car is a euro as I don't think it was on US cars.
(Ref: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...euro-cars.html)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...160393a549.jpg

1980 Instrument Cluster
 

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7b06a09c5f.jpg
This is what my 1980 instrument cluster looks like from the Front.
Also, can anyone recommend where to get an Instrument Cluster Mounting Plate for a 1980 (5 speed)?