Air pump removal?
11-09-2001, 06:21 PM
#16
Track Day
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You can probably get away with trashing it and gain a few h.p in the process.
Twenty-five + years ago (pre-928, of course), the alternative was to re-route the air pump discharge to the air cleaner housing to shove a little more air down the "beast's" throat. Have no idea if it had any proven benefit, but it was an interesting trick.
Rich '82 5-speed
Twenty-five + years ago (pre-928, of course), the alternative was to re-route the air pump discharge to the air cleaner housing to shove a little more air down the "beast's" throat. Have no idea if it had any proven benefit, but it was an interesting trick.
Rich '82 5-speed
11-09-2001, 07:51 PM
#17
Racer
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When I removed my air pump I just used a fabric tape measure and wrapped it around the pulley combination you wish to use. go to NAPA or Advance Auto. tell them you want a belt this long and walla you are n bussiness. I also yanked the CAT if favor of a test pipe. Actually think I lost some low end power but above 3K RPM it sits me back in the seat pretty good. Also screwed up the CIS had to reset and tweak bunches of stuff. 78 16V 4.5L CIS no CAT pumpin through a BORLA. Definately gets the attention of wannabe's and thier "coffee can" exhaust. BBWWHHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! 
11-09-2001, 10:29 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
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Hey John, no apologies necessary, you can’t remember who posted what. I am a native New Yorker, no ego and thick skin.
Snowball
Hypothetically speaking and for diagnostic purposes only, one could remove the air pump and clutch fan (which robs HP from the engine), install an electric fan and gain at least 5 to 8 Hp at the rear wheels, one could hypothetically of course, remove the cats, install a test pipe (for diagnostic purposes only), reinstall the O2 sensor. Because you can’t fool the controllers, the engine would not run right with out the O2 sensor. One would feel a net gain in horsepower. It all adds up to big Hp.
Steve C
Snowball
Hypothetically speaking and for diagnostic purposes only, one could remove the air pump and clutch fan (which robs HP from the engine), install an electric fan and gain at least 5 to 8 Hp at the rear wheels, one could hypothetically of course, remove the cats, install a test pipe (for diagnostic purposes only), reinstall the O2 sensor. Because you can’t fool the controllers, the engine would not run right with out the O2 sensor. One would feel a net gain in horsepower. It all adds up to big Hp.
Steve C
11-10-2001, 09:03 PM
#19
Steve,
While we are messing around here and there with the smog pump and O2 sensor...
Joe R.'s post -same topic- mentioned some resetting /tweaking of a bunch of stuff...Jump in here Joe!
I have been known to browse/subscribe to magazines - some without center folds -. So
awhile back Ford and Mustang had an article on injection/headers/computers and the much slandered O2 sensor. I can't remember if it was a seqential injector system or not. But, they ran a second O2 sensor from the DUMB side and actually spliced the lead prior to entering the computer. They reasoned that the brain was fast enough to detect and map a fix to the previously dumb side that was running lean or rich unbeknownst to the computer before adding the new sensor.
BTW both sensors were installed at the aft end -but still in reach- of the new headers.
They banged a flatspot, center punched drilled a hole slightly oversize, centered and welded the appropriate sized nut...ta da!
See where I'm going here Steve? Combined with a missing smog pump, single pipe RMB where's that cat at? No headers, yet.
John S. & Pattycakes
While we are messing around here and there with the smog pump and O2 sensor...
Joe R.'s post -same topic- mentioned some resetting /tweaking of a bunch of stuff...Jump in here Joe!
I have been known to browse/subscribe to magazines - some without center folds -. So
awhile back Ford and Mustang had an article on injection/headers/computers and the much slandered O2 sensor. I can't remember if it was a seqential injector system or not. But, they ran a second O2 sensor from the DUMB side and actually spliced the lead prior to entering the computer. They reasoned that the brain was fast enough to detect and map a fix to the previously dumb side that was running lean or rich unbeknownst to the computer before adding the new sensor.
BTW both sensors were installed at the aft end -but still in reach- of the new headers.
They banged a flatspot, center punched drilled a hole slightly oversize, centered and welded the appropriate sized nut...ta da!
See where I'm going here Steve? Combined with a missing smog pump, single pipe RMB where's that cat at? No headers, yet.
John S. & Pattycakes
11-11-2001, 01:32 AM
#20
7th Gear
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James,
Another alternative to using a shorty belt around the crank-fan is to shim the fan forward. Shim it until it lines up with the PS belt, (1/2 inch or so) which currently only engages the crank and PS pump. There seems to be plenty of room ahead of the fan to do this.
I have completed this update on my '83, but while-you-are-in-there syndrome (motor mounts, ball joints, oil pan gasket, ...) and expecting my first son have prevented the car from being returned to service. I can supply more info if it helps.
good luck,
Vince
Another alternative to using a shorty belt around the crank-fan is to shim the fan forward. Shim it until it lines up with the PS belt, (1/2 inch or so) which currently only engages the crank and PS pump. There seems to be plenty of room ahead of the fan to do this.
I have completed this update on my '83, but while-you-are-in-there syndrome (motor mounts, ball joints, oil pan gasket, ...) and expecting my first son have prevented the car from being returned to service. I can supply more info if it helps.
good luck,
Vince
11-11-2001, 01:21 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
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Hey John,
I think two o2 sensors on a car not designed for them would make the sensors look too busy or too slow, maybe a drivability problem? Just add a cross over pipe upstream of the cats, or test pipe. Install o2 sensor in the center. I think it would read both banks of the exhaust more efficiently.
Joey,
To gain a bit of low end torque, add a cross over pipe downstream of the mufflers.
Good luck,
Steve C
I think two o2 sensors on a car not designed for them would make the sensors look too busy or too slow, maybe a drivability problem? Just add a cross over pipe upstream of the cats, or test pipe. Install o2 sensor in the center. I think it would read both banks of the exhaust more efficiently.
Joey,
To gain a bit of low end torque, add a cross over pipe downstream of the mufflers.
Good luck,
Steve C
11-11-2001, 10:46 PM
#22
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Ok, so after spending all weekend searching for the mini-belt, I have success - on order - in a 19" form. The 21" that I was initially sold was hangin' slack.
Vince, seems like a good idea to shim to fan mount, but I am very hesitant to move the fan closer to such a damned expensive piece of equipment.
Chris, judging by the size of the Gates 7417, it seems to be the original one for including all three pulleys.
I will post the number and manufacturer on Tuesday, when the belt arrives, if anyone else wants to head down this road.
In the meantime, I suspect my fan clutch is crappy, too, so maybe an electric fan is the future method.
Glad to have sparked such an illuminating discussion.
Vince, seems like a good idea to shim to fan mount, but I am very hesitant to move the fan closer to such a damned expensive piece of equipment.
Chris, judging by the size of the Gates 7417, it seems to be the original one for including all three pulleys.
I will post the number and manufacturer on Tuesday, when the belt arrives, if anyone else wants to head down this road.
In the meantime, I suspect my fan clutch is crappy, too, so maybe an electric fan is the future method.
Glad to have sparked such an illuminating discussion.
11-12-2001, 01:20 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
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Hi James,
You may want to replace silicon in the fan clutch. Here are some of my notes:
Fan Clutch Silicon Fluid:
See Greg Nichol's site about replacing fan clutch silicon fluid: http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm
Get fluid from Toyota dealer. Part # 08816-03001. Use heat gun. Gently loosen and pivot off the strip that holds in plug from the middle. Takes some time. Do it while you watch a movie. This site has some other posts on subject. Search archives.
Late Breaking News:
Thickest part number version is 08816-10001, and recommended by Wally Plumley. It now appears that you can use a syringe to inject the fluid very quickly. See Cooling Fan Clutch Rehab, under Engine, at Greg's site.
Hope This Helps!
You may want to replace silicon in the fan clutch. Here are some of my notes:
Fan Clutch Silicon Fluid:
See Greg Nichol's site about replacing fan clutch silicon fluid: http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm
Get fluid from Toyota dealer. Part # 08816-03001. Use heat gun. Gently loosen and pivot off the strip that holds in plug from the middle. Takes some time. Do it while you watch a movie. This site has some other posts on subject. Search archives.
Late Breaking News:
Thickest part number version is 08816-10001, and recommended by Wally Plumley. It now appears that you can use a syringe to inject the fluid very quickly. See Cooling Fan Clutch Rehab, under Engine, at Greg's site.
Hope This Helps!
11-12-2001, 02:48 PM
#24
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Thom:
Thanks; I was aware but unmotivated to try the fix, and I'm toying with the idea of seeing how much HP might be freed by eliminating as much turning junk as I can. This car has become my obsession...
I was not aware, however, of the new part number. Cool; thanks again.
Thanks; I was aware but unmotivated to try the fix, and I'm toying with the idea of seeing how much HP might be freed by eliminating as much turning junk as I can. This car has become my obsession...
I was not aware, however, of the new part number. Cool; thanks again.
11-19-2001, 10:27 AM
#25
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If anyone's interested...
Success...the belt is a Gates 6819 - a ridiculously small belt, but works beautifuly.
Power gains - nah, not much, but it feels smoother.
And the air pump's on the garage shelf - for testing.
Success...the belt is a Gates 6819 - a ridiculously small belt, but works beautifuly.
Power gains - nah, not much, but it feels smoother.
And the air pump's on the garage shelf - for testing.
11-19-2001, 11:49 AM
#26
Instructor
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This air pump thing brings a smile to my face every time I see a post on a Porsche message board and I wonder how many Porsche fans know why them Germans put it there?
To confuse them Yanks.
'Tis true. To BS your silly emmission laws they stuck in a pump that collects clean air and blows it into the manifold through rudementory 'injectors' so when the customs inspector connects his machine to the tail pipe he gets a high CO2 reading...
HA-HA-HA-HA...!
If you think that's funny, then check up how many years they got away with it before you cottoned on!
To confuse them Yanks.
'Tis true. To BS your silly emmission laws they stuck in a pump that collects clean air and blows it into the manifold through rudementory 'injectors' so when the customs inspector connects his machine to the tail pipe he gets a high CO2 reading...
HA-HA-HA-HA...!
If you think that's funny, then check up how many years they got away with it before you cottoned on!
11-19-2001, 12:07 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
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Nope. Wasn't me about the 02 sensor John. Did have the replace the airpump on my 92 500E, 1200 bucks just for the part..under warranty thank goodness. MB elimated the pump on the 93 and 4 models.
K
K
11-19-2001, 12:14 PM
#28
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Pierre, you're breaking my heart!
And here I thought I was donning my black hat, bandanna and six-guns, going to (ride) drive the range ever alert for the wrath of the tree-hugging populus and the EPA, for I had become a polluter!
To think I'm no badder now than I was on Friday makes me rather blue. I was enjoying the outlaw status.
Oh well, at least there is one less whirring bit to interfere with the cat-less exhaust noise.
And here I thought I was donning my black hat, bandanna and six-guns, going to (ride) drive the range ever alert for the wrath of the tree-hugging populus and the EPA, for I had become a polluter!
To think I'm no badder now than I was on Friday makes me rather blue. I was enjoying the outlaw status.
Oh well, at least there is one less whirring bit to interfere with the cat-less exhaust noise.
08-09-2002, 11:56 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
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Hi Sharks:
Car Quest stores can get belts next day or same day. For my 86 model, the 20" version works perfectly for air pump elimination. Specifically: Belt 6820, 1/2" x 20", 12.5/13mm x 510mm, cost $9. They let me take the 21" belt home to try while the 20" was on order. They even ordered a 19" just in case the 20” did not work. They let me exchange belts at no extra charge. I have read and heard that the 21” works for some models, but cannot confirm that. I did not need long bolts to do the job. The fan bracket bolted back up very easily, and created tension on the belt as it became tighter.
Now, who knows the specs for the BEARINGS/rollers for the smog pump??? There are needle bearings on one end. I have not dismantled the pump completely to reveal the pulley end bearings. It looks like I just whack the shaft to drive it back through the bearing from the pulley side toward the inside of the pump. Has anyone does this? Does the pulley side use needle or ball bearings? Can I order the bearings over the internet? How do I pull doughnut shaped bearings such as these? I do not have access to the back side to tap them out.
Any answers would be helpful.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Car Quest stores can get belts next day or same day. For my 86 model, the 20" version works perfectly for air pump elimination. Specifically: Belt 6820, 1/2" x 20", 12.5/13mm x 510mm, cost $9. They let me take the 21" belt home to try while the 20" was on order. They even ordered a 19" just in case the 20” did not work. They let me exchange belts at no extra charge. I have read and heard that the 21” works for some models, but cannot confirm that. I did not need long bolts to do the job. The fan bracket bolted back up very easily, and created tension on the belt as it became tighter.
Now, who knows the specs for the BEARINGS/rollers for the smog pump??? There are needle bearings on one end. I have not dismantled the pump completely to reveal the pulley end bearings. It looks like I just whack the shaft to drive it back through the bearing from the pulley side toward the inside of the pump. Has anyone does this? Does the pulley side use needle or ball bearings? Can I order the bearings over the internet? How do I pull doughnut shaped bearings such as these? I do not have access to the back side to tap them out.
Any answers would be helpful.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
