My exhaust pipe breaking down
03-04-2002, 06:54 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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My exhaust pipe breaking down
In pulling out of my garage today, I noticed a good deal of exhaust gasses coming out from the middle of the car. Having checked the exhaust pipe, I can see two holes (meaning, one on each side of pipe that I can see light through) on the sort of "Y" connector where the pipe splits after coming out of what looks like the cat. Now the hard part. Mine is am '84 MY Euro, so I understood that they didn't have cats, just a middle muffler. What looks like I have is two pipes (one off each side of the engine) meeting up just before they enter the Cat/Muffler/Whatever, then splitting up right after exiting and staying two pipes all the way back to the rear muffler. If this is due to an importer changing the configuration of the system for federalizing, I want to "restore" it to what it should have been in Europe. If this isn't a cat that I'm seeing, will I have a lot of trouble from a mechanic or muffler person to fix it as it is? Either way, I'd really like to avoid having major work done right now (or spending the money) so I was also wondering how long I can hold out before "needing" to get this done. It's a lot to ask, but I like to be certain of things before I jump into them. Thanks up front.
Flint, '84 Euro-S, A/T.
Flint, '84 Euro-S, A/T.
03-04-2002, 07:33 PM
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Flint-
My '85 S2 is similar to your car and when I bought it, the PO had installed some sort of aluminized "sewer pipe" exhaust about 3.5 inches in diameter. There was a huge resonator where the catalyzer should have been, and a turbo muffler at the end that did nothing but add weight. The car simply roared.
-And it smelled like an old school bus at stop lights.
I removed the sewer pipe and replaced it with a pair of cats from an S4, with the oxygen pipes removed and welded over. The O2 sensor simply plugs another hole; the S2 didn't have one. After that, I added a Borla Exhaust, all from 928 International, at about $1100 if I remember right... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
For what it is worth, I noticed NO change in power or performance after adding the cat.
-If you wish to avoid the expense, consider taking your car to a smaller, independent muffler shop. They can probably fabricate a couple of pipe sections or patch what you have for quite a bit less. If they will work on it.
I once had an airport car that someone had yanked the catalyzer from. It's muffler was bad, so I took it to the chain shops for a new one. None of them would touch it- It seems it is illegal for them to work on a car which has had its cat removed. You can try to make a case to them that your S2 was built without a cat, but good luck...
I don't know if you have inspection in Nebraska, but here in Florida we don't and you can pretty much get away with any modification you can imagine. If you do have inspection, and they discover that the cat is not there, they will make you put one on. Again, good luck in convincing them that your S2 never had one...
Hope this helps!
Normy <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
My '85 S2 is similar to your car and when I bought it, the PO had installed some sort of aluminized "sewer pipe" exhaust about 3.5 inches in diameter. There was a huge resonator where the catalyzer should have been, and a turbo muffler at the end that did nothing but add weight. The car simply roared.
-And it smelled like an old school bus at stop lights.
I removed the sewer pipe and replaced it with a pair of cats from an S4, with the oxygen pipes removed and welded over. The O2 sensor simply plugs another hole; the S2 didn't have one. After that, I added a Borla Exhaust, all from 928 International, at about $1100 if I remember right... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
For what it is worth, I noticed NO change in power or performance after adding the cat.
-If you wish to avoid the expense, consider taking your car to a smaller, independent muffler shop. They can probably fabricate a couple of pipe sections or patch what you have for quite a bit less. If they will work on it.
I once had an airport car that someone had yanked the catalyzer from. It's muffler was bad, so I took it to the chain shops for a new one. None of them would touch it- It seems it is illegal for them to work on a car which has had its cat removed. You can try to make a case to them that your S2 was built without a cat, but good luck...
I don't know if you have inspection in Nebraska, but here in Florida we don't and you can pretty much get away with any modification you can imagine. If you do have inspection, and they discover that the cat is not there, they will make you put one on. Again, good luck in convincing them that your S2 never had one...
Hope this helps!
Normy <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
03-04-2002, 07:46 PM
#4
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I suspected my cat to be clogged and bought what they call "test pipes" from 928 Specialists. I think it was $130 if I remember correctly. They mount right in place of the cats, connect perfect to the sensor and work great. I am looking for another catalyst, but in the mean time it works and sounds great.
regards,
Sab. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
regards,
Sab. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
03-04-2002, 09:08 PM
#5
Flint,
Carbon monoxide is not one of my favorite inhalants. Bonds much easier to the hemoglobin than oxygen. In effect it prevents any particular red blood cell it comes in contact with from performing one of its major functions - oxygen/carbon dioxide gas exchange- permanently.
Short version: Fix it yesterday!
As long as the pipe is not punctured at a seam/weld/tight bend or on top you can have it scab patch welded anywhere, CHEAP! If there is a lot of 'rot' have the welder cut a length of equal or slightly larger diameter pipe to extend a couple of inches past the rot. Using a high speed with a thin cutting wheel -or torch- cut a straight line down the length of the repair pipe.
Heat the whole repair piece spread it so it goes over the existing pipe, clamp it back together, tack weld in position then weld every edge -including the long cut down the middle-. You can also just cut the repair pipe down the middle and weld it up that way.
After it cools wire brush and spray with galvanized paint - comes in spray cans -, avoid inhaling, nasty stuff. Repair will suprise you on how long it lasts... years. Concours it ain't.
Don't count on the welding shop have the size pipe you need on hand, but you never know.
And be nice, don't take your shark in dripping wet or with slush falling off of it. They make racing cats for under $60.00 6" long. Remember to disconnect/remove the Brain as welding on the car will, probably, do it in. If it's a slow day most welders won't think twice about welding it up, if it's a busy day or they don't have a lift or jacks they will balk and suggest liability issues.
HTH/LOL
John S. & Pattycakes <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
Carbon monoxide is not one of my favorite inhalants. Bonds much easier to the hemoglobin than oxygen. In effect it prevents any particular red blood cell it comes in contact with from performing one of its major functions - oxygen/carbon dioxide gas exchange- permanently.
Short version: Fix it yesterday!
As long as the pipe is not punctured at a seam/weld/tight bend or on top you can have it scab patch welded anywhere, CHEAP! If there is a lot of 'rot' have the welder cut a length of equal or slightly larger diameter pipe to extend a couple of inches past the rot. Using a high speed with a thin cutting wheel -or torch- cut a straight line down the length of the repair pipe.
Heat the whole repair piece spread it so it goes over the existing pipe, clamp it back together, tack weld in position then weld every edge -including the long cut down the middle-. You can also just cut the repair pipe down the middle and weld it up that way.
After it cools wire brush and spray with galvanized paint - comes in spray cans -, avoid inhaling, nasty stuff. Repair will suprise you on how long it lasts... years. Concours it ain't.
Don't count on the welding shop have the size pipe you need on hand, but you never know.
And be nice, don't take your shark in dripping wet or with slush falling off of it. They make racing cats for under $60.00 6" long. Remember to disconnect/remove the Brain as welding on the car will, probably, do it in. If it's a slow day most welders won't think twice about welding it up, if it's a busy day or they don't have a lift or jacks they will balk and suggest liability issues.
HTH/LOL
John S. & Pattycakes <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
03-04-2002, 09:21 PM
#6
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OK John, I've got to ask - why do your posts usually end in HTH/LOL (Hope This Helps/Laughing Out Loud)?
Doesn't appear to add to the credibility of your responses...
Doesn't appear to add to the credibility of your responses...
03-04-2002, 10:14 PM
#7
Flint,
I've seen the same cobled-up mess on my '83 Euro.
What the did was take a US cat (single exhaust)
and "adapt" it to the Euro exhaust (twin pipe).
On mine the basically mashed the 2 pipes together
and weld in patches until it didn't leak and
comletely eliminate any possibility of good exhaust flow.
Here's what I am going to do to mine; peel all
the sheilding of the cat and you will find welds
where the 2 down pipes meet the "Y" at the front
of the cat. Cut these off, replace with a couple
45's and a pair of small hi-flow cats and attach
to the seperate pipes of the factory exhaust.
Or if you can get it done go cat-less.
Be aware that the Euro exhaust system will be a bit louder and throatier than the US version once
you get the restriction out.
I've seen the same cobled-up mess on my '83 Euro.
What the did was take a US cat (single exhaust)
and "adapt" it to the Euro exhaust (twin pipe).
On mine the basically mashed the 2 pipes together
and weld in patches until it didn't leak and
comletely eliminate any possibility of good exhaust flow.
Here's what I am going to do to mine; peel all
the sheilding of the cat and you will find welds
where the 2 down pipes meet the "Y" at the front
of the cat. Cut these off, replace with a couple
45's and a pair of small hi-flow cats and attach
to the seperate pipes of the factory exhaust.
Or if you can get it done go cat-less.
Be aware that the Euro exhaust system will be a bit louder and throatier than the US version once
you get the restriction out.
Trending Topics
03-05-2002, 01:51 AM
#10
Randy,
Are you having trouble with your boyfriend , again. Raul is just being mean to you.
I think you look good in the pink chiffon stay away from the flats.
HTH/LOL
John S. and Pattycakes
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
Are you having trouble with your boyfriend , again. Raul is just being mean to you.
I think you look good in the pink chiffon stay away from the flats.
HTH/LOL
John S. and Pattycakes
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
03-06-2002, 01:47 AM
#14
Three Wheelin'
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Wow, got a lot of good responses. Going with the dual cats as Normy and Jim said sounds like the ultimate way to go, if I can't get anyone to concoct sometjhing akin to what it would have had in factory condition. Though until I want to go through that length, I'll just do as John and Pattycakes said and do like on submarines when they patch pipes (to avoid all those lovely carcinogens). My exhaust sound has always been pretty mean as it is; not too loud, not too soft, and with a nice, deep rumble--I guess I'd like to maintain that.
Oh, and to answer your question, Jim, some major construction over I-680 has really cut down the ability of one to speed on that section W. Dodge (though most drunk morons have figured out that you can build up a pretty good head of speed before the detour). It's more complicated than that, but I won't get bogged down in this post.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Flint
Oh, and to answer your question, Jim, some major construction over I-680 has really cut down the ability of one to speed on that section W. Dodge (though most drunk morons have figured out that you can build up a pretty good head of speed before the detour). It's more complicated than that, but I won't get bogged down in this post.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Flint
03-08-2002, 06:45 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
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Some last minute info here:
The US '85-'86 (32V but pre-S4) has the same rear exhaust section as the '84-'86 Euro. Same part numbers even. By rear section I mean everything from the cat back. It's a twin-pipe system.
The '84-'86 Euro cars have a dual in/dual out muffler where the cats are in a US '85-'86 car.
All US 928s with 32V engines have twin cats that are a direct fit, plug and play replacement for the Euro resonator. As was mentioned, you cut off the air pipes and weld the holes, then put in an O2 sensor and air/fuel meter if you want to get spiffy, or just block off the O2 hole with a dead sensor. Then you can plug this cat right into your Euro system.
I have the original Euro resonator for my car. Just visualize removing the two catalytic converter units themselves from a US system and putting a dual in/dual out muffler in their place and that's exactly what it looks like. I'll try to get some pics this weekend. It's a nice piece - made by Bischoff like the rest of the system. I have the dual cat setup in my car right now while I try to get the damn thing past emissions testing (high NOx of all things - HC and CO almost immeasurably low) then the resonator goes in to see what it's like.
Bryan
The US '85-'86 (32V but pre-S4) has the same rear exhaust section as the '84-'86 Euro. Same part numbers even. By rear section I mean everything from the cat back. It's a twin-pipe system.
The '84-'86 Euro cars have a dual in/dual out muffler where the cats are in a US '85-'86 car.
All US 928s with 32V engines have twin cats that are a direct fit, plug and play replacement for the Euro resonator. As was mentioned, you cut off the air pipes and weld the holes, then put in an O2 sensor and air/fuel meter if you want to get spiffy, or just block off the O2 hole with a dead sensor. Then you can plug this cat right into your Euro system.
I have the original Euro resonator for my car. Just visualize removing the two catalytic converter units themselves from a US system and putting a dual in/dual out muffler in their place and that's exactly what it looks like. I'll try to get some pics this weekend. It's a nice piece - made by Bischoff like the rest of the system. I have the dual cat setup in my car right now while I try to get the damn thing past emissions testing (high NOx of all things - HC and CO almost immeasurably low) then the resonator goes in to see what it's like.
Bryan
