Factory Work Shop Manual pdf on CD
11-18-2002, 05:46 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Dear Jim Moorhouse:
Congratulations on completing what must have been a huge undertaking. I'm sure many 928 owner's who legitimately own the hard copy manuals will gladly compensate you for your efforts.
Those owners who don't own an official hard-copy of the manual set must deal with their conscience regarding the ethical aspects of copyright enfringement. This post is not meant as a judgement. Each of us must decide what is right and wrong for ourselves, and hope that Porsche-AG doesn't persue legal action.
Since I DO own an official hard copy of the manual set, I'd be interested in obtaining a CD. Please let me know (off-line) what I need to do to get the CD. Naturally, I would compensate you for your efforts.
Congratulations on completing what must have been a huge undertaking. I'm sure many 928 owner's who legitimately own the hard copy manuals will gladly compensate you for your efforts.
Those owners who don't own an official hard-copy of the manual set must deal with their conscience regarding the ethical aspects of copyright enfringement. This post is not meant as a judgement. Each of us must decide what is right and wrong for ourselves, and hope that Porsche-AG doesn't persue legal action.
Since I DO own an official hard copy of the manual set, I'd be interested in obtaining a CD. Please let me know (off-line) what I need to do to get the CD. Naturally, I would compensate you for your efforts.
11-18-2002, 06:09 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Ed -
It sure sounds like your being judgmental towards those of us who do not own a copy. AND just because you already own the manuals doesn't make you exempt. The bottom line is, if you obtain a non licensed or copied item, your subjectable to any legal action.
If it turns out that Jims work is an infringement and you aquire it - your as guilty as the next person. They are two different items all together and just because you paid for one, doesn't mean you get two. What ever format it may be; Unless the ownership rights transfer to any format within, but I have never heard of such a thing. In the case that it does, I retract my reply.
I for one will pay for the manuals, but I own a ROW car and have yet to come across the manuals and I am beginning to think that I won't.
It sure sounds like your being judgmental towards those of us who do not own a copy. AND just because you already own the manuals doesn't make you exempt. The bottom line is, if you obtain a non licensed or copied item, your subjectable to any legal action.
If it turns out that Jims work is an infringement and you aquire it - your as guilty as the next person. They are two different items all together and just because you paid for one, doesn't mean you get two. What ever format it may be; Unless the ownership rights transfer to any format within, but I have never heard of such a thing. In the case that it does, I retract my reply.
I for one will pay for the manuals, but I own a ROW car and have yet to come across the manuals and I am beginning to think that I won't.
11-19-2002, 06:44 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Drewster:
I think you are mistaken. According to copyright regulations, the owner of a legal copy can make a backup of it. It is legal for someone else to provide it as a loaner (like a library). They can also give it away. The arrangement I make with Jim will be between him and me. You needn't concern yourself.
I think you are mistaken. According to copyright regulations, the owner of a legal copy can make a backup of it. It is legal for someone else to provide it as a loaner (like a library). They can also give it away. The arrangement I make with Jim will be between him and me. You needn't concern yourself.
11-19-2002, 11:10 AM
#19
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Since mt wife is a copyright and trademark attorney, I will chime in on this one. Without getting technical, these are some facts. Copyright infringement is not criminal in nature and deals primarily with damages (i.e. money). Porsche, most likely, would only have a problem with those that copy materials and profit off of it. Ed is correct when stating that material, including software, can be copied by the owner and lent out (not for profit). As far as the whole conscience thing goes, I would not lose any sleep over that. I think Porsche and most other large companies are doing just fine and often engage in practices that would make copyright infringement look like child's play. They are the ones that need to get a conscience, not us. Please reference the recent Worldcom fiasco as a prime example. Would you rather copy a workshop manual or rob thousands of their life savings for your own profit?
11-19-2002, 02:02 PM
#21
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Just for the record, there are copyright criminal statutes (18 USC 2318 et seq). Profit is not required to pursue infringers, especially if the work was registered and statutory damages are available (17 USC 504). The material can arguably be copied for backup in the same format, but lending out is not allowed for music or computer programs (17 USC 109(b)(1)(A)) if there is any commercial aspect involved. (Whether a .pdf file is a "program" is separate issue.) This is why there are no music or software rental shops, but there are movie rental stores.
Even if the lending is completely non-commercial (i.e. done for the cost of the CD-ROM), the changing of the manual from paper to electronic format is an infringement. This was the crux of the recent Supreme Court "Tasini v. NY Times" case in which the papers were not allowed to sell/catalog an electronic version of their writer's works to databases because they had not specifically obtained that right. The electronic format is considered a derivative work belonging to the copyright owner.
As I mentioned early, I can't imagine Porsche pursuing someone who owns the manuals, but that's the law. (Once again, this is all general information and not intended to be specific legal advice . . .)
Even if the lending is completely non-commercial (i.e. done for the cost of the CD-ROM), the changing of the manual from paper to electronic format is an infringement. This was the crux of the recent Supreme Court "Tasini v. NY Times" case in which the papers were not allowed to sell/catalog an electronic version of their writer's works to databases because they had not specifically obtained that right. The electronic format is considered a derivative work belonging to the copyright owner.
As I mentioned early, I can't imagine Porsche pursuing someone who owns the manuals, but that's the law. (Once again, this is all general information and not intended to be specific legal advice . . .)
11-20-2002, 10:18 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
The more manuals (in any form) floating around, the more likely owners will work on their cars and buy parts form Porsche. That could be a good thing for them.
I'm wondering what people think the nine volume original printed set of manuals from porsche should retail for?
Compare the cost of mass-produced Haynes or Chilton's single volume non-specific manuals for popular cars to the cost of the Porsche-authored nine volume 928 specific set from Germany.I've never had a problem with the 345.00 price. I wish that the manuals came with an update CD with the latest tech docs in pdf, but there is a whole lot of info in those nine volumes. I paid the $345 for the originals and have not been dissapointed.
Greg
I'm wondering what people think the nine volume original printed set of manuals from porsche should retail for?
Compare the cost of mass-produced Haynes or Chilton's single volume non-specific manuals for popular cars to the cost of the Porsche-authored nine volume 928 specific set from Germany.I've never had a problem with the 345.00 price. I wish that the manuals came with an update CD with the latest tech docs in pdf, but there is a whole lot of info in those nine volumes. I paid the $345 for the originals and have not been dissapointed.
Greg
11-20-2002, 10:45 PM
#23
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Hey Greg,
We're getting there on those "tech docs". There will definitely be a version 2 that will add about 20 or so more to the 44 that were in V1.2. Probably 2 to 3 months.
If anyone has the following, I'd really like to talk to you:
-LH/EZK ...1991
-airbag information wkd 493-621
-Electronic Ignition and Fuel Injection wks 200-020
If you'd like to see a listing of what I've got/know about to date, let me know. This has become a 'global' effort w source material coming in from Europe, N.America, Australia. I'd be particularly interested in any Euro specific stuff or manuals that cover some of the items like the headlight adjusters which are mentioned in the FWSM table of contents but omitted. If you're willing to look at the spreadsheet and compare it to what you've got, I'd appreciate it.
Jim
jim928@ptd.net
We're getting there on those "tech docs". There will definitely be a version 2 that will add about 20 or so more to the 44 that were in V1.2. Probably 2 to 3 months.
If anyone has the following, I'd really like to talk to you:
-LH/EZK ...1991
-airbag information wkd 493-621
-Electronic Ignition and Fuel Injection wks 200-020
If you'd like to see a listing of what I've got/know about to date, let me know. This has become a 'global' effort w source material coming in from Europe, N.America, Australia. I'd be particularly interested in any Euro specific stuff or manuals that cover some of the items like the headlight adjusters which are mentioned in the FWSM table of contents but omitted. If you're willing to look at the spreadsheet and compare it to what you've got, I'd appreciate it.
Jim
jim928@ptd.net
11-20-2002, 10:47 PM
#24
Sharkaholic
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Does owning a set of manuals on micro fiche count. I bought them a couple of years ago and still haven't got a reader for them. Never even opened them. Thanks to all of you here I haven't needed the manuals as much as access to a computer while on vacation. I do have them on order but they haven't got here yet.
11-21-2002, 01:55 AM
#25
Burning Brakes
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Shane, there is a "not too good version" which is just that - scans of microfiche. I guess you could get that copy and then get a copy of the copy in PDF format 
I have the fiche too but no reader, not sure why I ever got them either. Might be collectors items someday since they are no longer made - Just like my 928, hehe
I have the fiche too but no reader, not sure why I ever got them either. Might be collectors items someday since they are no longer made
- Just like my 928, hehe
11-21-2002, 02:39 AM
#26
Racer
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Some folks just gotta bitch about something. If Porsche has a problem with people copying their manuals then they should get off the pot and produce more of them.....supply....demand....supply....demand. The kicker is that with all this bickering back & forth, Porsche may not give a rats *** about whats going on. Oh well, now I have to try to go to sleep with my "conscience" beating me up......give me a break. 