Please help my 81 won't start.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,469
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From: Ball Ground, GA
Since you are starting to get desparate, here are two more thoughts.
It is possible that the compression is too low to allow the engien to start, due to dry cylinders from sitting so long.
Get a good pump (trigger-type) oil can and two feet of clear plastic tubing that is a good fit on the nozzle.
Pull all of the spark plugs, and put two pumps of ATF into each cylinder. Put a rag over the plug holes on each side and hit the starter briefly.
Reinstall the plugs and try to start the engine.
It is possible that the liquid that you are seeing from teh injectors is water from condensation, or is gasoline that is too old to burn well.
You could remove and drain the tank, or you could try to drain the tank using the pump, or you could add several gallons of fresh fuel and shake the car.
CAUTION - RISKY BUSINESS!! I am NOT suggesting that you do this, just telling you what has been done in the past!
Folks have used the pump oil can and tubing to feed fuel to the car. THIS IS RISKY!! It would be a VERY good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy, and do it outside! The best thing to use would be the fuel/oil mix for two-stroke equipment. It would be much easier to use two people for this - one operates the starter, while the other squirts fuel into the intake. There is a major danger of backfire and flashback - stay out of the line of fire!
If the engine will run on the squirted fuel, but not otherwise, the fuel in the tank is suspect.
It is possible that the compression is too low to allow the engien to start, due to dry cylinders from sitting so long.
Get a good pump (trigger-type) oil can and two feet of clear plastic tubing that is a good fit on the nozzle.
Pull all of the spark plugs, and put two pumps of ATF into each cylinder. Put a rag over the plug holes on each side and hit the starter briefly.
Reinstall the plugs and try to start the engine.
It is possible that the liquid that you are seeing from teh injectors is water from condensation, or is gasoline that is too old to burn well.
You could remove and drain the tank, or you could try to drain the tank using the pump, or you could add several gallons of fresh fuel and shake the car.
CAUTION - RISKY BUSINESS!! I am NOT suggesting that you do this, just telling you what has been done in the past!
Folks have used the pump oil can and tubing to feed fuel to the car. THIS IS RISKY!! It would be a VERY good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy, and do it outside! The best thing to use would be the fuel/oil mix for two-stroke equipment. It would be much easier to use two people for this - one operates the starter, while the other squirts fuel into the intake. There is a major danger of backfire and flashback - stay out of the line of fire!
If the engine will run on the squirted fuel, but not otherwise, the fuel in the tank is suspect.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Thanks again Wally. The substance coming from the injectors very well could be water or old gas but the tank was drained to near empty and a few gallons added along with fuel stabilizer. I will get more good gas in it today when I get out there. If the timing checks out ok I will start messing with the fuel thing again. I'll catch some of whats coming from the injectors in a jar and see what it is and how good it burns. (fire extinguisher in hand) I have printed out all the test methods you wrote among many others and will be checking them all today. Well as many as I can get in 3 hours. After I visit advanced auto and home depot. 
I'll update later tonight. I wanna get this thing started before this topic reaches 2 pages Thanks again
I'll update later tonight. I wanna get this thing started before this topic reaches 2 pages Thanks again
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Ok heres more test results with a little glimmer of hope. The timing seems to be ok all the marks line up. The fuel coming out of the injectors is good fuel. The last test I got to do was the most promising lead yet. I changed all the spark plugs and squirted some ATF in the holes. I cranked it over when I was done and it fired right up. It ran for about 10 or 15 seconds and died. I tried it again and the same thing it ran for a few seconds and died again. After that it would just crank and crank again. I pulled the plugs again and put more ATF in and it did the same thing ran for a few seconds and died. The second time I tried to give it some gas and it died as soon as I did. Can anyone give me some insight on what this means? Are my rings bad? I have not done a compression test yet and I'll try to do that tomorrow. (was putting off buying the tester until I had to). Thanks again guys in advance.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Warsaw, Indiana
Just for grins, you might try jumping terminals 30 and 87 on the fuel pump relay, as described on the Nichols page. Probably something more 'interesting', but your latest symptoms sound a lot like what I went through recently, start, run a few seconds and die. Only after a couple flatbed rides and changing out the fuel pump did it become clear that the relay was to blame. Might as well not ignore the easy stuff. Following your progress with great interest, good luck.
RAS
RAS
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Thanks for the tip Russell but the relay is good I've already established that I'm getting fuel and spark all the way into the engine. I so wish it was something that simple.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
From: Ellsworth, Michigan
Bucky, I think that it's normal for the car to stall/not run when you push down on the gas while starting. I know that when I had my adventure of getting the shark started I tried that too. And sure enough it did not help the starting process. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
Chucker
1982 928 White
Chucker
1982 928 White
Pro
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
From: Ellsworth, Michigan
Bucky, I just thought of two more things. One-- Pull the mass air flow off and there are two hoses under it. Make sure that they are connected. I had a rat/mouse chew through mine and I reconected it. Not sure if this was the problem since I did other things before it started. But it might help. The other is the Temp Two Sensor I have an extra one that you can borrow if you need to. I think that they are 38.00 and I have the old one that I can send to you. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
Chucker
1982 928 White
Chucker
1982 928 White
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Thanks Chucker the mass air flow thing is off but next time I look I'll check the hoses under it. As far as the temp 2 sensor I have mine bypassed with a wire between the connectors on the female end. It makes an audible difference when trying to start it. I would have bought a new one by now but I dont want to start buying a bunch of stuff and find out the engine is shot or something. At least I got to hear it run for a few seconds today. Thanks again chucker for all your help.
At least I got to hear it run for a few seconds today. Thanks again chucker for all your help.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Bucky,
Temp II is two sensors in one. Each leg on the sensor has a seperate sensor and resestance to ground. Maybe Wally or someone can clear this up, but I don't think that jumping the temp II wire is the right thing to do.
According to the book, a defective tempII sensor can cause no start, no hot start, etc.
If you want to check your temp II sensor, measure the resistance each leg of the sensor to ground. I would have to check my book at home to tell you what you should get, but if either leg is open to ground, the sensor is bad.
Greg
Temp II is two sensors in one. Each leg on the sensor has a seperate sensor and resestance to ground. Maybe Wally or someone can clear this up, but I don't think that jumping the temp II wire is the right thing to do.
According to the book, a defective tempII sensor can cause no start, no hot start, etc.
If you want to check your temp II sensor, measure the resistance each leg of the sensor to ground. I would have to check my book at home to tell you what you should get, but if either leg is open to ground, the sensor is bad.
Greg
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Thanks Greg but I think I jumped the temp time sensor not the temp 2 sensor. So many sensors so little time. Sorry for the mistake on my part in misleading you. I'm just curios why it will run with ATF in the cylinders and won't any other time?
I'm just curios why it will run with ATF in the cylinders and won't any other time?
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 3
From: Owasso, OK
Bucky,
The ATF may be sealing some of the gaps on your rings giving you more compression. It could also be mixing with your fuel and slowing the burn cycle. This would actually help if the fuel in your system is old and lower octane.
Try retarding your ignition timing by turning the distributor slightly clockwise. If it is residual old fuel in your system, this may get you started. Also, remove your thermotime switch jumper after it starts and dies once. You may actually be flooding it.
Good luck,
Dennis
The ATF may be sealing some of the gaps on your rings giving you more compression. It could also be mixing with your fuel and slowing the burn cycle. This would actually help if the fuel in your system is old and lower octane.
Try retarding your ignition timing by turning the distributor slightly clockwise. If it is residual old fuel in your system, this may get you started. Also, remove your thermotime switch jumper after it starts and dies once. You may actually be flooding it.
Good luck,
Dennis
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Thanks again guys. I wanted to do the compression test today but I got stuck working 14 hrs. 
Well anyway I will get to it soon and post the readings. I'll also try the timing and temp time sensor thing. Thanks again Greg and Dennis.
Well anyway I will get to it soon and post the readings. I'll also try the timing and temp time sensor thing. Thanks again Greg and Dennis.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Ok I did the compression test and here are the results in PSI. cylinders 1-4 is passenger side and 5-8 are drivers side(US).
C1. 120
C2. 120
C3. 105
C4. 95
C5. 135
C6. 125
C7. 135
C8. 135
I tested all cylinders more than once to make sure the results were accurate. I also tested a few cylinders with ATF added to see if the readings got any better. Those readings were as follows.
C3. normal... 105... w/ATF 130
C4. normal... 90... w/ATF 120
C5. normal... 135... w/ATF 140
Ok guys does anyone know what these reading indicate? If so any hints on how to fix it. If anyone needs more info I'll be glad to give anything I can. Thanks for any help.
C1. 120
C2. 120
C3. 105
C4. 95
C5. 135
C6. 125
C7. 135
C8. 135
I tested all cylinders more than once to make sure the results were accurate. I also tested a few cylinders with ATF added to see if the readings got any better. Those readings were as follows.
C3. normal... 105... w/ATF 130
C4. normal... 90... w/ATF 120
C5. normal... 135... w/ATF 140
Ok guys does anyone know what these reading indicate? If so any hints on how to fix it. If anyone needs more info I'll be glad to give anything I can. Thanks for any help.