Terrorism
09-13-2001, 09:31 AM
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It makes me happy people start calming down and thinking logically of all this situation. I guess it really is time now for all of us to re-evaluate our perceptions of modern world (which is completely f**ked up if you ask me). Open your eyes, people. Fuel prices and NASDAQ are far from being the most important things today.
I would like to present an excert from yesterdays's New York Times for those who haven't seen it. It's quite an interesting reading in my point of view:
The New York Times
September 12, 2001
When the Unimaginable Happens, and It's Right Outside Your Window
By CLYDE HABERMAN
Do you get it now?
It is a question that many Israelis wanted to ask yesterday of America and the rest of the finger-pointing world. Not in a smart-alecky manner. Not to say, "We told you so." It was simply a question for those who, at a safe remove from the terrorism that Israelis face every day, have damned Israel for taking admittedly harsh measures to keep its citizens alive.
"Suppose I had intelligence reports telling me that someone was going to hijack a Boeing 757 and crash it into the World Trade Center," an Israeli official said yesterday. "And suppose I used an M-16 to kill him. According to the arguments being used against us, I'd be an assassin, illegally using American weapons."
This official was referring to the international condemnation Israel has
endured for killing certain Palestinians, people accused of not only masterminding anti-Israel terrorist acts in the past but planning more in the near future. The American criticism of Israel has been sotto voce. But it is there. And in this Black September, after the worst act of terrorism
in history, the question arises from Israelis like this official:
Do you get it now?
"We are now going to see a very resolute, and possibly global, approach to dealing with terrorism," Joseph Alpher, an Israeli strategic analyst, said by phone from Tel Aviv. As for his own country, he said, "People will
understand with how much reserve we have responded ? and after this, criticism of the response will lower."
That question ? do you get it? ? came almost instantly to mind yesterday to me, too, after having just spent two months reporting from Israel. It was asked on more levels than merely how to deal with those who kill Americans for having committed the unforgivable sin of being Americans.
You can't avoid the question when, again, as on many occasions while working in Israel in the first half of the 1990's, you have seen the human wreckage caused by the suicide bombs that go off with sickening frequency.
You ask it because Jerusalem offers a glimpse of what New York may become.
Some likened the assault on the trade center and the Pentagon to the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. If the point was that we Americans may never be the same, the analogy is apt. Jerusalem points the way.
JUST three days ago, I wrote about the fear that now grips Israelis, how they listen for the sirens, how as the ambulances keep coming, they reach for cell phones. Frantically, they call to make sure that loved ones are all right. Often, they cannot get through because so many people are
phoning at the same time. They try to hold the panic at bay.
All of that happened in New York yesterday.
Even without knowing who was behind this monstrous act, you could not shake off the televised images of crowds of Palestinians ? not a handful of bloodthirsty extremists ? chanting "God is great" and joyously handing out candy in celebration on the streets of Nablus in the West Bank. Same as when a bomb went off in Jerusalem and killed children and their mothers in a restaurant.
The funerals for yesterday's victims will, you may be certain, become national events and, for many, occasions for political statements. Same as in Jerusalem.
In Israel, there is no such thing as six degrees of separation. In a country that small, two degrees is more like it. If you don't know a bombing victim personally, you almost surely know someone who does. You may
safely bet that an extraordinary number of New Yorkers will have the same relationship to someone whose life was cruelly extinguished yesterday in Lower Manhattan.
"It's all very personal there, and now it's all very personal here," said David Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee.
More clearly than ever, Americans now understand that they may not assume any public place is safe. Same as in Jerusalem.
Remember the suicide bomber who killed 15 innocent people at a Sbarro's pizza outlet in downtown Jerusalem last month? As timing would have it, that restaurant is supposed to reopen today. No doubt an armed guard will
be posted at the entrance, as one is these days at almost every restaurant and outdoor cafe in central Jerusalem.
We certainly have no shortage of Sbarro outlets in New York.
Do you get it now?
Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company
God help us all to find our way in dealing with this.
I would like to present an excert from yesterdays's New York Times for those who haven't seen it. It's quite an interesting reading in my point of view:
The New York Times
September 12, 2001
When the Unimaginable Happens, and It's Right Outside Your Window
By CLYDE HABERMAN
Do you get it now?
It is a question that many Israelis wanted to ask yesterday of America and the rest of the finger-pointing world. Not in a smart-alecky manner. Not to say, "We told you so." It was simply a question for those who, at a safe remove from the terrorism that Israelis face every day, have damned Israel for taking admittedly harsh measures to keep its citizens alive.
"Suppose I had intelligence reports telling me that someone was going to hijack a Boeing 757 and crash it into the World Trade Center," an Israeli official said yesterday. "And suppose I used an M-16 to kill him. According to the arguments being used against us, I'd be an assassin, illegally using American weapons."
This official was referring to the international condemnation Israel has
endured for killing certain Palestinians, people accused of not only masterminding anti-Israel terrorist acts in the past but planning more in the near future. The American criticism of Israel has been sotto voce. But it is there. And in this Black September, after the worst act of terrorism
in history, the question arises from Israelis like this official:
Do you get it now?
"We are now going to see a very resolute, and possibly global, approach to dealing with terrorism," Joseph Alpher, an Israeli strategic analyst, said by phone from Tel Aviv. As for his own country, he said, "People will
understand with how much reserve we have responded ? and after this, criticism of the response will lower."
That question ? do you get it? ? came almost instantly to mind yesterday to me, too, after having just spent two months reporting from Israel. It was asked on more levels than merely how to deal with those who kill Americans for having committed the unforgivable sin of being Americans.
You can't avoid the question when, again, as on many occasions while working in Israel in the first half of the 1990's, you have seen the human wreckage caused by the suicide bombs that go off with sickening frequency.
You ask it because Jerusalem offers a glimpse of what New York may become.
Some likened the assault on the trade center and the Pentagon to the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. If the point was that we Americans may never be the same, the analogy is apt. Jerusalem points the way.
JUST three days ago, I wrote about the fear that now grips Israelis, how they listen for the sirens, how as the ambulances keep coming, they reach for cell phones. Frantically, they call to make sure that loved ones are all right. Often, they cannot get through because so many people are
phoning at the same time. They try to hold the panic at bay.
All of that happened in New York yesterday.
Even without knowing who was behind this monstrous act, you could not shake off the televised images of crowds of Palestinians ? not a handful of bloodthirsty extremists ? chanting "God is great" and joyously handing out candy in celebration on the streets of Nablus in the West Bank. Same as when a bomb went off in Jerusalem and killed children and their mothers in a restaurant.
The funerals for yesterday's victims will, you may be certain, become national events and, for many, occasions for political statements. Same as in Jerusalem.
In Israel, there is no such thing as six degrees of separation. In a country that small, two degrees is more like it. If you don't know a bombing victim personally, you almost surely know someone who does. You may
safely bet that an extraordinary number of New Yorkers will have the same relationship to someone whose life was cruelly extinguished yesterday in Lower Manhattan.
"It's all very personal there, and now it's all very personal here," said David Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee.
More clearly than ever, Americans now understand that they may not assume any public place is safe. Same as in Jerusalem.
Remember the suicide bomber who killed 15 innocent people at a Sbarro's pizza outlet in downtown Jerusalem last month? As timing would have it, that restaurant is supposed to reopen today. No doubt an armed guard will
be posted at the entrance, as one is these days at almost every restaurant and outdoor cafe in central Jerusalem.
We certainly have no shortage of Sbarro outlets in New York.
Do you get it now?
Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company
God help us all to find our way in dealing with this.
09-13-2001, 10:15 AM
#47
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Please Read!
Leonard Pitts Column From the Miami Herald
Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001
Very, very well said
Leonard Pitts Column From the Miami Herald
Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001
Very, very well said
We'll go forward from this moment. It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering. You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed. Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.
Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer'srevealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.
IN PAIN Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined. THE STEEL IN US You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn.
Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer'srevealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.
IN PAIN Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined. THE STEEL IN US You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn.
09-13-2001, 12:39 PM
#48
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OK, I thought a hell of a lot before posting this as I am not sure anymore about the way our American friends will interpret the message, but still I do feel like it may be worth you know these things that can not be seen on CNN, NBC, FOX or whatever channel you prefer. So, a short update of the Israeli side of this awfull "new reality":
Americans will not see any Palestinian celebrations anymore for the following reasons:
Arafat has ordered Palestinian police to confiscate all the tapes that may show his people celebrating the "succesfull attack".
Israeli government has officialy asked all local journalists that may have access to these tapes not to transfer them to any foreign broadcast company, this being afraid these tapes coming from Israeli hands will be wrongly interpreted by many western media.
Israeli intelligence services, undoubtedly having copies from both sides - Israeli and Palestinian, were ordered the same.
This said, american people will probably not have a chance of seeing these pictures except the ones they already have.
Meantime in Israel, celebrating demonstrations are going on in Nablus, Ramallah, Jerusalem, Gaza, and some more minor locations. From what was spotted by Israeli journalists during the last 2 days, Palestinian police officers, as well as many representatives of local Palestinian administrations and security functions are actively taking part in mentioned celebrations shouting out loud voices of happiness and hate to both nations - Israeli and American.
Although Arafat has ordered to stop above activities, they are still being conducted by uncontrolled crowds on the streets, even now, 2 days after they started.
I'm afraid to call this "happiness", but it definitely looks like it...
Now you tell me - who's really got something to hide here?...
Americans will not see any Palestinian celebrations anymore for the following reasons:
Arafat has ordered Palestinian police to confiscate all the tapes that may show his people celebrating the "succesfull attack".
Israeli government has officialy asked all local journalists that may have access to these tapes not to transfer them to any foreign broadcast company, this being afraid these tapes coming from Israeli hands will be wrongly interpreted by many western media.
Israeli intelligence services, undoubtedly having copies from both sides - Israeli and Palestinian, were ordered the same.
This said, american people will probably not have a chance of seeing these pictures except the ones they already have.
Meantime in Israel, celebrating demonstrations are going on in Nablus, Ramallah, Jerusalem, Gaza, and some more minor locations. From what was spotted by Israeli journalists during the last 2 days, Palestinian police officers, as well as many representatives of local Palestinian administrations and security functions are actively taking part in mentioned celebrations shouting out loud voices of happiness and hate to both nations - Israeli and American.
Although Arafat has ordered to stop above activities, they are still being conducted by uncontrolled crowds on the streets, even now, 2 days after they started.
I'm afraid to call this "happiness", but it definitely looks like it...
Now you tell me - who's really got something to hide here?...
09-13-2001, 12:47 PM
#49
Three Wheelin'
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Boris, I think you misunderstand a bit. One little nuance is not that we don't think Israel is in danger but it seems just a little while ago, when all parties were kept talking and informed, there was less attacking going on, there was less mistrust going on. But now, Bush has all but shunned Arab leaders, leaving them with egg on their face in front of their own populations and you use OUR weapons to attack them. There would be no Israel without our support and help, and there'd be no combat on the scale Israel is now capable of without OUR support. Let's see how much war Israel wants to wage if the US stops shipping them arms and stops listening to your lobbyist. You so quickly jump to, "see,I told you so" and invoking images of pizza parlors and whatnot and it's just so dishonest.
I am tired of Arabs, and I am tired of Jews.
What I would like to see is US policy deal fairly with that region and it most certainly is not right now. The whole world can't be wrong and only two countries are right. As I recall it was, oh say, about three countries during WW2 that thought the world was wrong and they were right.
I'm gonna tell you something else, I see no difference between an Arab and a Jew. You are the same. YOU ARE BROTHERS, COUSINS WHATEVER BUT YOU ARE LINKED AT THE HIP. Like it or not, you're not going anywhere one without the other. Now with all the weapons they get from China, Russia or God knows where and all the weapons Israel gets from us, well the both of you are just dumb enough to take them and do yourselves in and trying your damndest to take the rest of the world with you.
I am tired of Arabs, and I am tired of Jews.
What I would like to see is US policy deal fairly with that region and it most certainly is not right now. The whole world can't be wrong and only two countries are right. As I recall it was, oh say, about three countries during WW2 that thought the world was wrong and they were right.
I'm gonna tell you something else, I see no difference between an Arab and a Jew. You are the same. YOU ARE BROTHERS, COUSINS WHATEVER BUT YOU ARE LINKED AT THE HIP. Like it or not, you're not going anywhere one without the other. Now with all the weapons they get from China, Russia or God knows where and all the weapons Israel gets from us, well the both of you are just dumb enough to take them and do yourselves in and trying your damndest to take the rest of the world with you.
09-13-2001, 01:12 PM
#51
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Kaz,
You're absolutely right in defining our (Jewish and Arab) behavior in here, but with some minor corrections:
1. The weapons Palestinians use against us were given them by United States.
2. Some history will teach you that there was Israel, and with much less complications, when Americans were still out of the picture. (just read one of my previous messages on the wars over the land).
3. May I say USA is going to use weapons to attack terrorists in their act of revenge to what has been done 2 days back? This is exactly what we're doing. And why exactly should it be wrong for us if it right for you?...
4. There definitely would be Israel without your help, with one small condition: without your help to our "friendly" neighbours. Are you trying to say you do not support Arafat? Excuse me, but who does then? Or is it Egyptians or Jordans that hate him and the Palestinian people even more than I can dream in my worst dreams? Not likely. For them, he'd better be dead a long time ago letting them live in peace with Israel. You're more then welcome to check the facts that I'm stating here in any respectable sources.
There really is no difference between arabs and jews, it's just I'm not being really happy that your people are dieing under what's left from the WTC.
And now I'm gonna tell you something as well:
I'm tired of ignorant Americans who are dumb enough not to understand the reality even after counting thousands of casualties.
This said I think it really is better for us, Israelis, to sit quiet now and hope for some common sense in the majority of american brains, cause if not - we will be the first in trouble, much before the terrorists responsible for attacks.
Therefore, I'm retiring from this discussion as wisely advised by my government on many occasions.
Be well, people of big and powerfull America, who always know what to do and how to rule this world.
You're absolutely right in defining our (Jewish and Arab) behavior in here, but with some minor corrections:
1. The weapons Palestinians use against us were given them by United States.
2. Some history will teach you that there was Israel, and with much less complications, when Americans were still out of the picture. (just read one of my previous messages on the wars over the land).
3. May I say USA is going to use weapons to attack terrorists in their act of revenge to what has been done 2 days back? This is exactly what we're doing. And why exactly should it be wrong for us if it right for you?...
4. There definitely would be Israel without your help, with one small condition: without your help to our "friendly" neighbours. Are you trying to say you do not support Arafat? Excuse me, but who does then? Or is it Egyptians or Jordans that hate him and the Palestinian people even more than I can dream in my worst dreams? Not likely. For them, he'd better be dead a long time ago letting them live in peace with Israel. You're more then welcome to check the facts that I'm stating here in any respectable sources.
There really is no difference between arabs and jews, it's just I'm not being really happy that your people are dieing under what's left from the WTC.
And now I'm gonna tell you something as well:
I'm tired of ignorant Americans who are dumb enough not to understand the reality even after counting thousands of casualties.
This said I think it really is better for us, Israelis, to sit quiet now and hope for some common sense in the majority of american brains, cause if not - we will be the first in trouble, much before the terrorists responsible for attacks.
Therefore, I'm retiring from this discussion as wisely advised by my government on many occasions.
Be well, people of big and powerfull America, who always know what to do and how to rule this world.
09-13-2001, 01:34 PM
#52
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I'm glad you're so tired of Americans. You know, you always have the right to stop our weapons at your border and go it alone. Furthermore, I'm trying to recall even ONE photo I've seen of a Palestinian holding an American made AK 47. Perhaps you'd be forthcoming and post a picture.
09-13-2001, 01:49 PM
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On the same note:
This is YOU who's got the right to stop these weapons coming to Israel, and as long as you don't do so - there may be a reason for this. And may I suggest now you go back home and stop looking for an enemy in my face instead of solving your own problems.
Sorry I made a mistake by saying you help Arafat. Sure enough you don't. He's the poorest side in this conflict, just like those guys who just killed your families. You should be sorry for them being so depserate they come to your home to kill you. Poor people, they really need your support now, just like the Arafat does. I suggest you even take a couple of them to your own home and feed them. And after you finished feeding them, fly directly to Afganistan and help Talibans with some more money, as it seems all the american help they got during the war with Russia wasn't enough, which made them so desperate and angry on american nation that they went this far now.
I can clearly see the solution now:
No "nuking" or "turning into glass", just money, and as much as possible. Let them have their weapons, let them build a nuclear bomb. Keep them happy, and only then this world will be safe! Poor guys, I feel so sorry for them. And for those who just killed 2 innocent Israeli civilians today, and for many many others who still sit at their home, using Israeli and American money to buy materials for the next Tel Aviv (or will it be Boston?...) bomb. Poor souls...
When the **** will this nation start being reasonable???!!!
I ask for apology from this forum for being this emotional. I better go kill myself for what we, Israelis, by means of terrorists hands, have recently done to New York City...
This is YOU who's got the right to stop these weapons coming to Israel, and as long as you don't do so - there may be a reason for this. And may I suggest now you go back home and stop looking for an enemy in my face instead of solving your own problems.
Sorry I made a mistake by saying you help Arafat. Sure enough you don't. He's the poorest side in this conflict, just like those guys who just killed your families. You should be sorry for them being so depserate they come to your home to kill you. Poor people, they really need your support now, just like the Arafat does. I suggest you even take a couple of them to your own home and feed them. And after you finished feeding them, fly directly to Afganistan and help Talibans with some more money, as it seems all the american help they got during the war with Russia wasn't enough, which made them so desperate and angry on american nation that they went this far now.
I can clearly see the solution now:
No "nuking" or "turning into glass", just money, and as much as possible. Let them have their weapons, let them build a nuclear bomb. Keep them happy, and only then this world will be safe! Poor guys, I feel so sorry for them. And for those who just killed 2 innocent Israeli civilians today, and for many many others who still sit at their home, using Israeli and American money to buy materials for the next Tel Aviv (or will it be Boston?...) bomb. Poor souls...
When the **** will this nation start being reasonable???!!!
I ask for apology from this forum for being this emotional. I better go kill myself for what we, Israelis, by means of terrorists hands, have recently done to New York City...
09-13-2001, 02:10 PM
#54
Burning Brakes
I think it's time to go to our neutral corners and calm down. We (the whole world) has had a major attack on civilians, the concept of freedom, and western society, not to mention our economic well-being. Let's not bicker among ourselves.
Tomorrow is a day for reflection and prayer (for those who believe in such). I must count my lucky stars, as my Son was at another building when the Pentagon (where he works) was hit. Today, there was another bomb alert at the Pentagon. I suspect there will be many more.
Soon (the sooner the better) we will know who did these dasterdly deeds and where he/they are hiding. I pity the organization or country that shelters the culprits. They will likely suffer the wrath 10-fold of what was dealt to the US.
My agency just got word that they need volunteers to help clean up the rubble at the Pentagon. They are looking for civil engineers, EMTs and anyone trained to fight fires. It's been 25 years since I was a Navy fireman, but I'm putting my name on the list. I have to put all this pent up anger to good use or I'll explode!
Peace.
Tomorrow is a day for reflection and prayer (for those who believe in such). I must count my lucky stars, as my Son was at another building when the Pentagon (where he works) was hit. Today, there was another bomb alert at the Pentagon. I suspect there will be many more.
Soon (the sooner the better) we will know who did these dasterdly deeds and where he/they are hiding. I pity the organization or country that shelters the culprits. They will likely suffer the wrath 10-fold of what was dealt to the US.
My agency just got word that they need volunteers to help clean up the rubble at the Pentagon. They are looking for civil engineers, EMTs and anyone trained to fight fires. It's been 25 years since I was a Navy fireman, but I'm putting my name on the list. I have to put all this pent up anger to good use or I'll explode!
Peace.
09-13-2001, 02:28 PM
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I've probably gone overboard in my last posting, for which I apologize. Hopefully it is understandable by people who have just experienced what I face on a daily basis.
God help us all to overcome this tragedy and get stronger than ever in our will to make this world better than it is today, cause much wrong than this it just can not be.
Kaz, my apologies go to you as well. I shouldn't have said what I said, and I expect the same respect from you as well.
We are all tired, and it's not the best time to argument.
God help us all to overcome this tragedy and get stronger than ever in our will to make this world better than it is today, cause much wrong than this it just can not be.
Kaz, my apologies go to you as well. I shouldn't have said what I said, and I expect the same respect from you as well.
We are all tired, and it's not the best time to argument.
09-13-2001, 02:37 PM
#56
Hey Boris,
Guess what? That is why I don't live in Israel. If I was born there, I would move. I don't want to hear about Jews, or Israelis, or Arabs. I really don't care about any of YOUR problems. DO YOU GET IT?
Guess what? That is why I don't live in Israel. If I was born there, I would move. I don't want to hear about Jews, or Israelis, or Arabs. I really don't care about any of YOUR problems. DO YOU GET IT?
09-13-2001, 03:02 PM
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Yes, John. I do get it.
I even perfectly understand it.
I will even tell you more: I would move if I knew where to, cause all this makes me seek just as it does to you. The question is where... Not NYC I'm afraid. And if I do find a safe place today, nobody can promise it will remain so tomorrow.
The problem is these are common problems, and not my personal. Although related, they have nothing much to do with me. Look at Chechnia in Russia, Serbia, Afganistan, you name it. It's all over the planet, and some of the people are still trying to turn around and deny their belonging to this global problem. I don't know about you personally, but fortunately enough, your country doesn't turn it's back to this, and hopefully will never do so.
I even perfectly understand it.
I will even tell you more: I would move if I knew where to, cause all this makes me seek just as it does to you. The question is where... Not NYC I'm afraid. And if I do find a safe place today, nobody can promise it will remain so tomorrow.
The problem is these are common problems, and not my personal. Although related, they have nothing much to do with me. Look at Chechnia in Russia, Serbia, Afganistan, you name it. It's all over the planet, and some of the people are still trying to turn around and deny their belonging to this global problem. I don't know about you personally, but fortunately enough, your country doesn't turn it's back to this, and hopefully will never do so.
09-13-2001, 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by John Welch:
<STRONG>Hey Boris,
Guess what? That is why I don't live in Israel. If I was born there, I would move. I don't want to hear about Jews, or Israelis, or Arabs. I really don't care about any of YOUR problems. DO YOU GET IT?</STRONG>
<STRONG>Hey Boris,
Guess what? That is why I don't live in Israel. If I was born there, I would move. I don't want to hear about Jews, or Israelis, or Arabs. I really don't care about any of YOUR problems. DO YOU GET IT?</STRONG>