Uh oh...

and here I was thinking that the stroked 928 S4 motor I'm buildfing would be a fair damsel for competiton for the M5.

What you say again Mainiac??? Is it not so???

<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

 

Hi Jay,

I was talking stock M5 vs stock 928.

 

I would think a stroked up 928 would eat an M5 like a Krispy Kreme. there would just be this mad amount of torque that would push that 928 ahead of that M5 as if God was playing with the 2 like HotWheels.... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

if stroker is not enough.....turbo or super sounds good to me for the power

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

Well, not to get into the same discussion as the Z06 thing, but the point is that many things come into play with street racing. Maybe the M5 backed off, because his groceries were spilling on his new leather seats. Or maybe he was just a wus. Or maybe it was just a regular 5 series, and the dude stuck on an "M" badge to be cool, a-la rice boy... Like I said, in terms of numbers, the M5 or a Z06 should eat a 928 for breakfast. It was not like I totally walked away from him. I just got the drop on him, and got ahead. He managed to keep pace, and in fact probably caught up a bit, but never passed me. Who knows? But it was fun beating him, regardless of the hows and whys...

 

Jay, i dont think we will have too much trouble keeping up with anything out there when we are done. Granted we wont be invincible, id dont expect that, but we sure should be able to embarass a few unsuspecting folk.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

928 Maniac,

Yes, 540i is a fast car, but they are not all that fast. My 1993 Audi S4 5 cylinder could run right along side those things and even pass them accellerating. That was stock, before I put some RS2 mods on the car. Now they are a nothing but a morning yuppie snack. I see nothing superior in a 540i as compared to a 928 S4, GT or GTS....personally I think the 928 would easily beat the 540i. How is it thge 540i can beat any stock shark?, the latest 928s have well over 300 HP, what does the 540i make?, and is it not a heavier car? Let's see, 4.0 liters, right? Latest sharks are over 5 liters. Granted the Bimmer may turn higher engine speeds.

The new M5 is a hell of a machine, make no mistake about it. But, a well built 928 could run with it. Sock for stock, there would be no comparison, but blow the shark and then see what happens...

 

[quote]Originally posted by John:
<strong>928 Maniac,

Yes, 540i is a fast car, but they are not all that fast. My 1993 Audi S4 5 cylinder could run right along side those things and even pass them accellerating. That was stock, before I put some RS2 mods on the car. Now they are a nothing but a morning yuppie snack. I see nothing superior in a 540i as compared to a 928 S4, GT or GTS....personally I think the 928 would easily beat the 540i. How is it thge 540i can beat any stock shark?, the latest 928s have well over 300 HP, what does the 540i make?, and is it not a heavier car? Let's see, 4.0 liters, right? Latest sharks are over 5 liters. Granted the Bimmer may turn higher engine speeds.

The new M5 is a hell of a machine, make no mistake about it. But, a well built 928 could run with it. Sock for stock, there would be no comparison, but blow the shark and then see what happens...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Here we go. Yuppie snack? I am yet to find a stock 928 than can run with my yuppie snack. I've diced my buddies and just about every 928 I could pick up just for the hell of it. That's on the street. (flame suit on) On the track it's a different story. The 540 is a joke. Latest 540i is 4.4 liters BTW, and it comes alive at 4000 rpm. Most 928's I know are not nearly as revvy. 300+HP... You're talking factory claimed HP. How many 928s out there still make 300+HP? (Okay, hand me another flame suit)

Your tricked out Audi vs stock 540's? Hp mods against stock? What's the point? A blown Shark against a stock M5? We're supposed to be talking stock for stock remember?

 

Stock for Stock:

93 Audi S4 will stick with a 540i, and that is with three less jugs...

late 80's+ 928 S4, GT, GTS will outrun a 540i

The M5 is a freeway monster, no dispute there. I'd take the Audi RS6 and have the advantage, especially in the wet or the snow.

Go look up some numbers and let us all know....the 540i is a very nice car, but it is no 928 beater. There are lots of sharks putting out just as much HP as when they left the factory... and some with a few more.

 

Let's look at the real numbers on the 540i:

0-60: 6.6 sec
1/4 mile: 15.1 sec @ 87 MPH
Top end: 155 MPH
Braking 124 ft from 60 MPH, 217 ft from 80 MPH
Slalom: 60.3 MPH
Skidpad: 0.85 g
Max engine speed: 6100 RPM

For the 1993 Audi S4

0-60: 6.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.0 sec @ 93 MPH
Top end: 130 (governed, uncorked, i.e. remove the speed wire, over 150)
Braking 147 ft from 60 MPH, 246 ft from 80 MPH
Slalom: 60.0 MPH
Skidpad: 0.83 g
Max angine speed: 7000 RPM

Granted, the performance figures taken for the 540i were at over 2000 feet altitude, but it looks like the old 5 cylinder S4 can hold its own, in fact the only real advantage the 540i has is in braking. Drop some RS2 mods on top of the 5 cylinder and the 540i does, in fact, become a snack for the S4.

Think I'm kidding, go drive one, even a stock one. 227 HP stock, drop a $500 MTM chip in and you make 280 reliable HP. The RS2 mods (turbo and minifold) easily deliver 320 at the crank.

If you seriously think a 540i can take any 928, well, you had best look at the numbers more closely. The best sharks make well over 300 HP and turn all around performance figures much better than the 540i. Straight line, handling, top end and braking. In fact, an old 928 would probably run with the 540i without a lot of difficulty.

Bottom line, if you want a really fast Bimmer, you should get an M car, and maybe even the bronze skin tint to go with it.

 

"""""You're talking factory claimed HP. How many 928s out there still make 300+HP? (Okay, hand me another flame suit)""""


Medium well...Please

316hp is the book figure from Porsche for the S4. For an auto, take 15% drive train loss(conservatively), perhaps more than that.

316 x .85=268.6 HP at the rear wheels.
316 X .80= 252.8 HP at the rear wheels (20% drivetrain loss)

Most S4 dyno charts i have seen are right on target with the that!...AND..they are 15 yr old car with over 80K on average!

So with that, i will raise my hand! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> slainte'

 

I hear ya Tony

My 87 S4 with only a cat-bypass tube produced 273 HP at the rear wheels, using 20% for driv eline losses puts me at about that of a GTS - and that's with 113K miles showing on the clock.

No smokin', no other side ailments, just straight up numbers.

Now about the stroker....

Well, save that topic for another thread.

 

The "BMW can't be beat" attitude runs long and hard with these people. These are the same guys that called the 944 a cheap Porsche while they were busy driving 318i BMWs and dreaming of owning an M3.

Sure the 540i is fast, but it is no match for a good 928.

 

No doubt the bmrs are nice rides. As far as 540i's are concerned I had a bit of a scirmish (spelling?)with one on a very twisty road about a year back and was suprised the darned thing didn't tip over. They look too tall from top to bottom to corner as well as they do. My '80 didn't have trouble keeping up at all and in fact probably could've gone a little faster if I went around him (he was in front and there were way too many steep drops if I happened to have an "off" in the wrong place). I was fairly certain he had a manual transmission the way he was shifting but maybe not given the advancements in auto trannys these days. I'd guess an older 28 with a 5speed vs the 540i on the track with Mario Andretti driving would be Porsche victory but in the end I think the 928 is a more sporty looking car with probably some good advantages on the track where balance and center of gravity are concerned. I'm impressed with the fact that BMW can produce a very conventional setup / platform that can handle four person transportation and still compete with cars which were designed to be more sports oriented like the 928. My buddy with the M5 and the '02 Carerra prefers the Carerra but I suspect they both are fairly equal in power to wieght ratio which you have to respect. I guess also that an S Class Benz with all the AMG goodies would be right in the same ball park. I think for "two people" transportation you get the best bang for your buck in the 928 in terms of exclusiveness, quality, and comfort/performance. The Ferrari Marinello, Jaguar, Lexus SC, Corvette, Nissan Z, and Supra are really, in my opinion, the main cars that have the same basic design concept in mind (front motor/two passenger etc), the Vette and Ferrari being the most performance oriented in exchange for creature comforts or exotic appeal. I only wish Porsche had the foresight to just go ahead and drop a monster of a motor in the 28 from day one rather than building up to it. Ferrari didn't mess around and niether did Chevrolet when it comes to power. Fortunately Porsche got there with the later model 28s which means some folks know that these bubble-mobiles can really fly...(they always did but can get there even faster with newer ones) that gives me the benefit of the doubt in cases where people won't mess with me because the car looks fast standing still or because they were taught a lesson by someone else in a 28. Bigger, wider wheels and tires help to scare off those who don't know any better. In the end I think that guy with the M5 I saw a few weeks ago knew that very few cars stood a chance. I'd have loved to have been driving a new Turbo Porsche and done the same to him as he did to me but its that it was a "family car" that did the damage that serves up a nice big slice of humble pie. There's no manual "air-recirculate" switch on my climate control so I got a nice car full of M5 exhaust when he launched. I can at least feel good about having a real classic. His ride looks like every other 5 series tooling around town...

 

Listen up. FYI I'm a Shark owner and I loooove my Shark - Fat Bully, allbeit the bully is way past stock in all departments. I forgot what a stock 928 feels like. In fact - I really don't care. All I know is the Bully is the fastest 928 (track car) in South Africa, hands down.

But I like to remain realistic about the capabilities of other high performance cars out there... Regular street cars and other track cars. I guess the term `being objective' is a bitter pill judging by the current comparo threads on this board. Yeah, them quick yuppie toys used to **** me off also, but I learned to deal with it by throwing tons of $$ into building a superquick 928.

To prove what?

 

The thing to prove, is that just because someone spent $70,000 on a M5, or $50,000 for a Z06, does not mean they will win every race. I think people feel that money talks. If that M5 driver or Z06 driver gets beaten by a Viper, or Ferarri, they figure it is to be expected, because those cost even more. What I enjoy, is beating those people... In my 928, or my motorcycle... It's just fun to disprove their theory. They spend a lot of money to have the newest and the fastest. I just like pulling up in a car, or bike, that looks cooler, and happens to be faster too. And all for much less money. Just some hard work. Modified is fine. I am not talking stock. I am talking strokers, nitrous, etc. Whatever it takes, to prove to people that a fancy new car, is not always the fastest. Sometimes a cool looking old 928 with a stroker will beat you...