srv

Drewster,

Hey man, I'm all for point/counter-point, so don't worry.

After all, one should be able to back up what one's says, and I hold myself especially accountable.

To address an earlier post, a family will and does fight. And I think that's healthy as long as it doesn't get ugly, not unlike the reference that was made, "Plastic-Pig". What was up with that?

When I get home tonight, I will look for the source where I got the information from.

In the meantime, check the posted times as they do support the statement.

Carlos

Guys get real. My 87 S4 has autothority chips, a K&N and gutted cats. Everyone who has been in it says it runs very good for a 928. I once beat a Mustang Cobra with an S-Trim (Vortec blower). That is an 11 second car on any day with the right tune up. Does this mean I have an 11 sec. 928? No it just means that I was lucky enough to stumble across a bufoon, period. A very good 928 and an ordinary C5 are about comparable in performance with the edge leaning to the C5. Would I run one? Sure. Would I bet anything on the outcome? No. Now if anybody on this board thinks their 928 will beat a Z06 they need to seek help and that includes John's twin turbo.

Think I'm wrong? Go to the next meeting of your local Corvette club. Vette owners are not the mamby pamby purist types who sit and talk about how racing like this is in violation of the "spirit of the car". Your average Vette owner will go! If anybody thinks their 928 is a Z06 killer or even a well tuned C5 killer, put some money in your pocket & go check it out. Please post the results. As for me, I'd like to do some friendly testing with a stock C5 but picking on a Z06 would be akin to slaping Lennox Lewis.

And as for the white car, 6 weeks ago I was in Bowling Green Ky for the NMRA world finals with George's 1750 horsepower mustang. Z06 fest was there also, about 125 Z06's. One was a twin turbo fresh from Lingenfelters. 660 hp at the rear wheels. Personally, I dont think there is a Porsche engined 928 on the planet that could run with that car.

Mike Velez

Taking on the competition is usually reserved for the long stretch of open highway as originally illustrated in this post. Not, on the strip with a Christmas tree. According to the Euro mag AutoCar the GTS is among the worlds fastest cars (at the time) when it comes to overtaking. 4th gear 50-70mph 3.7 seconds. In the review I'm refering to it noted that a Ferrari 512 Testarossa needed to drop down to third to match that 3.7 time, keep the GTS in third and 50-70 and it's 2.7 seconds. I'd love to find an article on the C5 that gives these types of times. 80 to 100 4.2 seconds in 4th. Now the Z06, that may be a different storry.

From personal experience I've yet to come accross anything on the road quicker from cruise to *****-Out than my GTS. Things are usually done with before getting out of third. And since forth can get you to some very unsafe speeds (130) I've yet to find conditions that would warrent going beyond that.

goodspeed928

Ill bet a 928 with 200,000 on the clock will
beat eny Vett with the same!
That is if it's not in the bone yard. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

John..

The Bastard will run around 5 to 5.5 seconds 0-60. The best 1/4 mile I ran was 13.6 @ 114 MPH, this was before I made some mods, when the car was running 5.8 0-60 times. After my fuel system mods (leaned it out) I would put the 1/4 mile somewhere around high 12 to low 13 seconds at roughly 115-118 mph. My guess is that the mods opened up another 30-50 hidden HP

I don't care much for dead stop straight line figures, because I run on STOCK rubber and I can tell you my 5.5 second 0-60 run includes a s*itload of wheelspin, even with the limited slip rear end. Mind you 928s have great traction, even better with a limited slip rear end.

Don't get me wrong, the Z06 is a lot of car for the money. From a dead stop, the Bastard would probably lose (I don't have HUGE overgrown rubber), but I would bet you out on the highway I could surprise a Z06 and run flat against, if not beat a C5.

As for the Devek car, well let's just say that would send a Z06 into hiding, at least on a long open road. I mean get real guys, that car is capable of over 200 MPH for sustained periods of time. Mark claims it is around 500 HP.

928 engines have been built to 750 HP (no joke) and it is possible to get 450-500 out of a normally aspirated version with 6.5 liter displacement. Blow it to 14 psig and you are EASILY looking at 700+ HP on a 32 V unit.

I have not dynoed my car. I would guess it is somewhere between 375 and 415 HP. It really depends on the air temp. outside and how cool the charge gets. But if you figure it is running 8.5 psig of boost and makes 230-240 out of the crate (no cats):

230 HP+230 HP*(8.5psig/14.7psig)=363 HP...so my guess might be a tad bit high.

I can say the Bastard has never been shown up by anything on the highway, including a new 996. Best part of all is the Bastard didn't cost a lot of money and still gets respect by the "big boys".

John..

Just as a point of reference, the Z06 has a stated top accelleration of 0.77 g (I think). My Audi will pull 0.71 g under full boost, while the Bastard is around 0.6 g. The Bastard is overall faster, since the 0.6 g comes on right away and stays there long and hard, while the Audi spikes up to 0.71 G, only in 1st gear.

All I know is I rarely ever have to downshift to pass anything. Positive manifold pressure is a wonderful thing.

Maybe I should get some Euro heads and cams????

Carlos

This is ridiculous. If you guys think you've got something for a Z06, bring your car & your money to the nevt corvette club meeting in your area.

As for comparing the white car to Zdog, the twin turbo 427 Lingenfelter conversion, wait till the drugs wear off and take another look at this. 660 STREETABLE, warranteed, rear wheel horsepower, my money would be on the vette any way you slice it.

Garth

I had my GTS at the drags this last August. I had problems keeping traction (I'm not that great of a driver). Despite having traction issues, it did put down these numbers:

60' - 2.267
330' - 5.859
1/8 - 8.823
1000 - 11.346
1/4 - 13.492
MPH: 107.03

The SAE adjusted RW HP is just over 330 for my GTS.

Garth
93 GTS 5sp
GT camshafts, Ott X-Exhaust

Drewster67

G is your last name Brooks?.

Impressive numbers - I will add.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

John..

Carlos,

If you are such a Chevy fan, why not go out an buy one? The 928 can swing as much meat as any pushrod Chevy engine. Let's look at the facts. My motor was built in 1980, and then modified in 1983. It makes gobs of torque and a good bit of HP. Now tell me, if Callaway can bolt some small turbos on a BONE STOCK 928 engine do some tricks with the fuel injecton and easily turn out 350-400 HP in 1983, what is possible today?

I could take a Devek stroker crank setup, put forged pistons in my car with stronger rods, better head gaskets and then dial up my boost to 14-18 psig. Mind you I would probably go with a Motec or the like to get the fuel map right. The result would be well over 600 at the crank with absolutely no problems whatsoever, more like 750 to 800. Trust me it could be done with what I have, I'm just not crazy enough to spend the money on it. 375 to 400 HP is enough for the street.

There is nothing inherently better about the Chevy engine than the 928 engine. Don't forget I am talking about a 30 year old design, built 20 years ago.

It is all about how much air you can flow through it. I don't see anything inherently better about a Chevrolet engine in doing this.

There just happens to be a more loyal following and gobs of aftermarket parts for Chevrolets. Base engine to base engine (same year) the 928 was a better design than the Chevy.

There were some 928 engines built which had 750 crank HP. Enough said.

bcdavis

This is GREAT! Hahahaha! I love street racing, drag racing, and competition between cars. The thing I love about the 928, is that it is comparable to these new cars, at much less money. I can spank most standard BMW's (beat several M3's), most older Vettes, and most Mustangs, etc... So I consider it money well spent. Besides, I have no payments, so I can save more and more money, so I can do the kind of insane mods to get a 700HP car. I bet even after a supercharger, stroker, etc, it will still be cheaper than a 700HP Lingenfelter Corvette. I just think it is cool that you can take an old 928, and beat a lot of sh*t out there. Driver skill plays a significant role in racing. I really think the racetrack or driving event is the place to put things to the test. All these numbers don't mean much. There are always people claiming awesome numbers for their cars. Numbers aren't everything. I like the idea of taking a 928 and a C5 to Firebird. That's fair. Regardless, these are fast cars for their time, and fast cars for the money you can now get them for. I think it is hella fun to beat people in my old car, when they just walked out of the dealership with their expensive new car...

John.

Even better is ripping by a 996 or Boxster knowing you have a FRACTION of the money in your car they have in thiers.

Normy

Well "Shirley"....

-There are a couple of faults in your logic that I'll point out. First of all, does a C5 weigh 3500 pounds?

I don't know...I just vaguely remember reading somewhere that they did.

OK. You have a point- I don't know what C5's weigh. And I don't have the exact figure in front of me...but if I did, then just what publication would I most likely be looking at?

A car magazine perhaps....?

MotorTrend/Car and Driver/Road and Track/Autoweek and a host of others are in actuality "vehicles" designed to make money for their publishers by attracting subscription moneys from (typically) young male automotive enthusiasts. That is why you get to see the hottest new "whizbang GT" posed dramatically against some breathtaking vista on the glossy front cover. Excitement sells...but what else sells in magazines? Well....advertising space, for one.

OK. So gm comes out with the new 5th generation corvette. Wowwee-gee, we look at the oddly proportioned new car and read in the article that gm [finally, after 47 years....] realized that an integral transmission/final drive assembly mounted at the rear [where have we seen this before, I ask you?] might have advantages...but then, being the hardcore types we are, we skip ahead to the PERFORMANCE tables and scope out just what the new one is capable of. And of course, our eyes widen at the huge performance numbers....

Really, when I read those graphs and charts I sometimes find my own mouth watering!

ANYWAY, here's my point. One day, one of these so-called "mouth watering" performers could not keep up with my 5 speed 928S2. I watched it happen- there was no add copy here, no expert photography, and no dramatic setting...just two cars on a deserted stretch of HWY 436 going a little faster than they should have been for a few seconds.

SO- I ask you this. Do you think that if I had been a car magazine writer tasked with writing the article on the new C5, and was coming home from lets say...a test session with one, that my editor would let me put this in the article:

"The new $41,500 chevy corvette C5, while an excellent expression of the state of the art in American sports cars and all-around great performer, unfortunately could not keep up with this writer's filthy, 17 year old, $10,600 Porsche 928". Yeah, that'll sell $41k cars!

But lets just say for a moment that my editor had been partaking of a little too much of that wondrous beverage from your hometown known as "Milwaukee's Best" and just happened to miss that little paragraph in my article.

How many gm advertisements do you think you would see in the magazine after that?

How long do you think that me and my editor would be employed?

Do you get my point? Like many people, you apparently look only at numbers that you find in some publication somewhere and make DOGMA out of them! You are not thinking about 1. Who made those numbers, 2. Who benefits from those numbers, 3. The reality behind those numbers.

Automotive writers and magazines are NOTORIOUS for flat out lying. Sometimes test reports are conveniently "corrected" to sea level conditions [corrected to standard density altitude] and sometimes they are not....yet they are ALWAYS presented as fact! And usually they don't even bother to tell you about this correction. Furthermore, I think that they outright embellish in some sections of the articles. I mean, when is the last time that you actually heard them make a real negative comment about some facet of a new car that they were reviewing? Or pan one altogether? OH occasionally they will review a real winner like the mid '90's caprice and come up with something dry like "the styling is controversial among members of the staff" when the reality is that the damn thing looked like Shamu out at SeaWorld. But then again, calling a leviathan a leviathan is no way to sell ad space, either. And finally, there is another, very important concept that you do not grasp, srv: production line variation. No two cars off the assembly line are the same- some are just strong runners, and some are slugs. Porsche 928's were largely hand-crafted cars, so there was probably less variation from car to car than there is in today's C5, but those 928's have been on the road far longer as a group and have seen tremendously varying treatment and maintenance. Your S4 may not keep up with the average C5, but my S2 went after one and the result was completely different!

After all this, I want you to realize that I am not flaming you here, just that I disagree with what you have said.

[and I'm purposely ignoring what you cryptically said about "exaggerated statements", by the way~]

But in closing I have some recommendations for you. First of all, take your shark to a reputable shop and have them go through it with a fine-toothed comb, because I have a feeling that your car is not running as strongly as it could and you are being deprived of some of the fun of 928 ownership. Second of all, learn what is on the end of your fork, and third....

please don't vote!

Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed

bcdavis

You know what we need? A drag race series, with East versus West versus Europe. Mostly stock cars. Corvettes, versus 928s, versus RX-7's... Every racing series is somewhat segregated. The American cars drag race American cars. Imports battle imports. We need to mix things up a bit, to get to the bottom of this!

Brent 89 - GT

Jeez Normy, A little paranoid are we? I don't know what car rags you read but I have pretty good faith in the one I choose for numbers. You can't go around comparing one mags results with anothers. They each have thier own unique procedures and the results are seldom comparable. These guys get accused of twisting results all of the time. I don't know how many times C&D has been accused of being on BMW's payroll. Mostly by sour ****** that can't admit that they build the best dang sports sedans on the road. I happen to use C&D because they standardize all of thier results and completely test every vehicle they can. They just published a story on how they test cars. You should read it. I have been reading that mag for nearly 20 years. I don't always agree with their choices but I have never been able to fault their test numbers.

As for the Z06, it had better be faster than a 928. It has a price tag to match. The fact that an old 928 ran with a new C5 is testament to the 928 greatness. The fact that a Z06 can spank it is not real surprising, 400hp, 3100lbs, do the math. I still vastly prefer the Porsche, as most of us do. I would bet that even the C5 owners consider the cars disposable next to a 928. That is another plus for the 28.