Don '85S3

I have heard that the different "S" series were based primarily on engines changes, as follows:

S1 '81, '82 4.5L 219HP
S2 '83, '84 4.7L 234HP
S3 '85, '86 5.0L 288HP
S4 '87 - GT 5.0L 316HP Front / rear mod

Anyone have the definitive answer???

SteveG

Phil Tong has a site loaded with info: 928s4vr.com, he has factory info, hp, cc, etc. by year, by Euro vs. ROW, manual vs. AT.

Don '85S3

Steve -

I'm familiar with Phil's site and his information confirms the above. There has been some discussion in another thread that an '85 is still an S2. I think that Phil's info is accurate. '85 was the first year for an S3.

martin D

Don
Euro S's are definitely different

'S' '80-'83 300bhp
'S2''84-'86 310bhp 16v still in '85-'86
'S4''87-'91 320bhp (DIN) 316bhp (SAE)
GT '89-'91 330bhp

There was no S3 32v, although others have said it was an option on mainland europe, anybody ever seen one this side of the pond?

Don '85S3

Martin -

I believe the information above and on <a href="http://www.928s4vr.com/" target="_blank">http://www.928s4vr.com/</a> is accurate for US "S" versions. I haven't seen the definitive answer yet from anyone.

Thom1

Hey Bernie,

What was that Porsche sticker you found on your 1985 USA model that said S2? Was that a series number or paint code?

Hi Don,

Ah, there’s the rub! Like you, I would rely on Phil’s site more than most. Where does he define the S2 series? Why does he not call the 1986 model an S3? Why is the 1986.5 model omitted? Members of the PCA are not normally Porsche employees. A book written by the PCA is not Porsche official documentation. Phil quotes: “The Porsche Family Tree, published by the PCA. The book may or may not be quoted correctly. Most PCA guys know very little about the water-cooled types. My local Porsche dealership employees are mostly less knowledgeable than me about 928s. Who knows?

My official “Porsche Technical Specifications” publication: “Porsche Models Dimensions Tolerances, 928 S Modell 85, 86, 928 S4 Modell 87, 88, 89, 1st Edition, Stand as of 10/1/1989” omits definition of S2 or S3. This is a USA model book. The only official documentation I can find specifies only S and S4 USA models.

Some think that the only S2 models were EURO 84-86.

Can somebody call Stuttgart, and get the opinion of the engineers there?

Here is a chronology that I ended up with from an earlier series discussion. It lists the major factors that probably determine series driving factors. I could possibly be convinced to start the S3 with the 32 valve engine.

Series Definitions of 928:

Notes: If nothing changes, the key item is omitted. Fuel-Injection: K means K-Jetronic(also see L and LH). HP = HorsePower SAE.

Key Items: Series Years Fuel-Injection Engine-Liters Country Horse-Power Valves (Notes)

928 77-79 K 4.5L EURO 229HP, USA 219HP 16VALVE
928 80-82 EURO
928 80-82 L USA 220HP
S 80-83 4.7L EURO 300HP
S 83-84 4.7L USA 234HP
S2 84-86 LH EURO 310HP (Antilock(ABS) started late 84, 86 has 4 Piston/S4 Brakes)
S2 85-86 LH 5.0L USA 288HP 32VALVE (86 has ABS)
S3 86.5 EURO 288HP 32VALVE
S3 86.5 USA (4 Piston/S4 Brakes)
S4 87-91 5.0L EURO&USA 316HP, Australia 300HP
S4 CS 88 EURO 326HP (GT Camshafts, minus 220 lbs. of accessories, adds 675rpms to rev limit)
S4 SE 88 UK (CS with accessories)
GT 89-91 EURO&USA 326HP
GTS 92-95 5.4L EURO 345HP (GTS (Bigger) Brakes)
GTS 93-95 5.4L USA 345HP (GTS (Bigger) Brakes)

Notes: 928s were delivered to Japan, Australia, England, Switzerland, etc. with variable configurations that may not be shown above. If anyone has a definitive Porsche quote that specifies S2 and S3 configurations, please post the link.

Here are links to other points of view. Some support my opinions, some don’t.

<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=003310&p=" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=0 03310&p=</a>
<a href="http://addicted.to/928/chronology.html" target="_blank">http://addicted.to/928/chronology.html</a> <a href="http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/boot/66/928_s.htm" target="_blank">http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/boot/66/928_s.htm</a> <a href="http://www.928s4vr.com/928s4003.htm" target="_blank">http://www.928s4vr.com/928s4003.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm" target="_blank">http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm</a>

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goodspeed928

The 86.0 NO ABS
The 86.5 has ABS

Bernie

Hey Thom,

My shark is a 1985 928 with the 32V engine built for Canada.
It has a sticker that is about 1" square in the driverside doorjam that says S2 and thats it?

I have never figured that one out.....

Any input from other members is appreciated.
I was always under the impression that 32V 85 cars were known as S3 in NA.

Does anyone else have a simliar sticker in their doorjam?

Thom1

Hi Bernie,

Thanks for the quick response. If that is not a series tag, I dunno'. There are no S2 paint codes on the 928 Specialists site. That is the only Porsche 928 sticker with S2 on it that I know of. Maybe it does not signify the existence of an S2 model.

Maybe I need to change my S2 and S3 USA model determining factors back again. Maybe there is no USA S2 or S3. Nah, there has to be an S3 before the S4. Therefore, there must be a Series 2 as well.

Until someone quotes an official Porsche publication such as the FSM, we will never know for sure.
<img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Normy

-My understanding is that the S2 was NOT sold in any form in the US. In fact, the only place that actually received an official S2 was the UK- all other places the 310 hp 928 was simply called a 928S. Internally, it was of course called S2.

-ABS was indeed available in 1986 on S2's as an option. This started in 1985. My '85 S2 has factory ABS.

I understand that there **might** have been a few true S3's sold in Europe during 1986, but these cars, with the early 32 valve engine...were designed for the American market, where their naturally cleaner exhaust emmisions and greater low speed torque were needed.

AS such...strange as it may sound, it is possible to find a 32 valve car without ABS and a 16 valve car from the same year...with it!

Normy-
'85 S2

DaveW

Here you go - origional stickers, from the factory.

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/potw/.Pictures/char%20grilled/928S2.jpg" alt=" - " />

And as far as what and when - Normy's got it right.

Cheers
Dave

sweanders

An interesting note may be that when a 928 S4 is registered in Sweden it is officially named Porsche 928 S.

I don't know if the earlier S's also are called 928 S, I'll have to try and find out.

goodspeed928

Sorry, no ABS in USA 86.0

Don '85S3

As Thom said, "Until someone quotes an official Porsche publication such as the FSM, we will never know for sure". I'll send Phil Tong an email and see if he has any additional info for verification. <a href="http://www.928s4vr.com/" target="_blank">http://www.928s4vr.com/</a>

Thom1

Hey Greg,

Where did you get the ABS specification?
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