Braided brake lines/hoses
03-02-2003, 06:08 AM
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Braided brake lines/hoses
Every now and then I see cars with braided brake lines/hoses. Is there a technical advantage to those, or is that just for "show"?
To me, those look as if they'd collect a lot of dirt and might be hard to clean (and keep them looking nice).
Now, maybe the idea of using those is to demonstrate how dedicated one is to cleaning...
Could you please clarify?
To me, those look as if they'd collect a lot of dirt and might be hard to clean (and keep them looking nice).
Now, maybe the idea of using those is to demonstrate how dedicated one is to cleaning...
Could you please clarify?
03-02-2003, 09:49 AM
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Nicole,
There is an advantage on a track car, but wouldn't recommend on a street car.
They don't hold up as well to the constant flexing you see on the street.
There is an advantage on a track car, but wouldn't recommend on a street car.
They don't hold up as well to the constant flexing you see on the street.
03-02-2003, 09:57 AM
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Nicole,
I just replaced all my brake hoses. Stay with the original rubber lines. I bought mine from Dave Roberts. He refuses to sell the SS braided hoses for normal street cars. You can ask him why.
I just replaced all my brake hoses. Stay with the original rubber lines. I bought mine from Dave Roberts. He refuses to sell the SS braided hoses for normal street cars. You can ask him why.
03-02-2003, 10:18 AM
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My understanding is that braided brake lines improve braking feel.
Normal rubber lines expand and contract slightly when you push on the brakes, adding a small amount of vagueness. A driver who knows his car very well can supposedly meter the brakes better with the braided lines because they don't have this "ballooning" effect.
N!
Normal rubber lines expand and contract slightly when you push on the brakes, adding a small amount of vagueness. A driver who knows his car very well can supposedly meter the brakes better with the braided lines because they don't have this "ballooning" effect.
N!
03-02-2003, 10:25 AM
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The synthetic rubber brake lines SWELL under hard braking conditions , especially if you up graded to bigger calipers; the swelling reduces your brake firmness and braking power. DOT approved stainless braided brake lines with its outer reinforcement reduces the swelling increasing braking firmness. I have them on my car and the brakes are a lot firmer.
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03-02-2003, 02:29 PM
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I've often wondered about this myself Nicole.
However, seems like one of those topics of mixed reviews.
Glen...can you let us in on Dave's secret so we don't all have to email him?
John...by saying they can't hold up to constant flexing on street vs. track you mean on the street, brake lines are simply used more and are not as durable?
Tim Delarm
However, seems like one of those topics of mixed reviews.
Glen...can you let us in on Dave's secret so we don't all have to email him?
John...by saying they can't hold up to constant flexing on street vs. track you mean on the street, brake lines are simply used more and are not as durable?
Tim Delarm
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03-02-2003, 02:39 PM
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I had them on my 944Turbo and the brake feel was firmer. When I bought my 928 I was going to put the SS lines on but, mixed reviews of longevity made me wait until the topic came back again. So my question is this alot of people put them around there cooling hoses and you have alot of flex on them how can they be dentremental on your brake lines? Sal
03-02-2003, 08:54 PM
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Nicole,
I've "heard" braided steel lines can act like a file against other objects in the vehicle.
I was about to purchase some braided lines for other use in the car and both the seller and my mechanic said don't do it.
I've "heard" braided steel lines can act like a file against other objects in the vehicle.
I was about to purchase some braided lines for other use in the car and both the seller and my mechanic said don't do it.
03-02-2003, 09:04 PM
#10
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Funny, I have always heard that braided brake lines were the way to go.
I replaced the lines on my motorcycle and DID get a nice firm feel on the brakes. Been on there for a few years with no ill effects.
I really can't outwardly see the negatives of switching to braided lines.
Looking forward to the insight.
I replaced the lines on my motorcycle and DID get a nice firm feel on the brakes. Been on there for a few years with no ill effects.
I really can't outwardly see the negatives of switching to braided lines.
Looking forward to the insight.
03-03-2003, 01:56 AM
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DEVEK researched SS brake lines almost 10 years ago, and had a inhouse failure during testing. I always wondered how Lucky got his nickname! DEVEK never sold SS brake lines, other venders did or still carry them if you want to buy them.
A customer recently had a failure in a SS and called us telling us that the brake lines that he bought from us failed....BUT, Susan helped him by refreshing his memory about why we do not sell SS brake lines and when he asked we refused to sell him SS lines, we suggested he find them elsewhere. He ended up buying them elsewhere!
SS brake lines, even the dot "strain releived" versions, are too suspectable to fatigue failures...
Stick with the stock....after all, who is at fault if the SS lines you install fail and you knock some kid off his bike when your brakes fail?
Marc
DEVEK
A customer recently had a failure in a SS and called us telling us that the brake lines that he bought from us failed....BUT, Susan helped him by refreshing his memory about why we do not sell SS brake lines and when he asked we refused to sell him SS lines, we suggested he find them elsewhere. He ended up buying them elsewhere!
SS brake lines, even the dot "strain releived" versions, are too suspectable to fatigue failures...
Stick with the stock....after all, who is at fault if the SS lines you install fail and you knock some kid off his bike when your brakes fail?
Marc
DEVEK
03-03-2003, 02:22 AM
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Thats funny Mark-
I thought I bought some stainless steel braided brake lines from you a few years ago...guess I got them from someone else!
Well, they never actually fit! They sit in my attic....
Normy-
'85 S2 5 Speed
I thought I bought some stainless steel braided brake lines from you a few years ago...guess I got them from someone else!
Well, they never actually fit! They sit in my attic....
Normy-
'85 S2 5 Speed
Last edited by Normy; 09-18-2003 at 08:39 PM.
03-03-2003, 03:59 AM
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Mark,
It’s sounding like SS brake lines are not the way to go regardless of the extra advantage of “firm feel” they provide, however, my question has still yet to be answered <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
When you say “in-house failure” and “fatigue failures” are root cause for not selling the lines, in actual fact, what are you saying fails? The hose itself, the end fittings or, the whole damn thing just blows-up? <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" />
Thanks bunch,
Tim Delarm
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />
It’s sounding like SS brake lines are not the way to go
regardless of the extra advantage of “firm feel” they provide, however, my question has still yet to be answered <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> When you say “in-house failure” and “fatigue failures” are root cause for not selling the lines, in actual fact, what are you saying fails? The hose itself, the end fittings or, the whole damn thing just blows-up? <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" />
Thanks bunch,
Tim Delarm
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />
03-03-2003, 06:44 AM
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I was not really considering them for my car, I just saw them again yesterday, and that prompted me to inquire why people buy them.
As you know me, I have a tendency to stick to factroy recommendations. Because I know how well Porsche engineering designs and tests their cars. I very much trust my friends who work in Weissach, and the company values they carry. That might make me sound like a "blind follower" at times, but whenever I ask them, I get a sound explanation for why things are recommended a certain way.
When I owned my Renault Fuego back in Germany, we had rat-like animals (I think they are called "Martens" in English) who loved to chew on rubber parts of cars the have been parked with warm engines in the cold winter nights. While I was lucky on coolant hoses, I had lots of CV boots chewed over time. Everytime I had to have the brake hose replaced as well, because of swelling from the grease that came out of the boot.
The first time this happened, the master technician was not able to figure out why the car was pulling to the side so strongly when braking. After cleaning and new pads did not help, he recommended to have the calipers replaced - a big expense, especially considering that I was a student at the time (18 years later I'm still mad at him for that one!). But I did not know any better. Of course it did nothing to fix the problem. In the end, someone tipped me off that there was a service bulleting from Renault that required to replace the brake lines after a CV boot goes bad. A $15 part at the time, and the problem was solved...
Thanks everyone for explaining this!
As you know me, I have a tendency to stick to factroy recommendations. Because I know how well Porsche engineering designs and tests their cars. I very much trust my friends who work in Weissach, and the company values they carry. That might make me sound like a "blind follower" at times, but whenever I ask them, I get a sound explanation for why things are recommended a certain way.
When I owned my Renault Fuego back in Germany, we had rat-like animals (I think they are called "Martens" in English) who loved to chew on rubber parts of cars the have been parked with warm engines in the cold winter nights. While I was lucky on coolant hoses, I had lots of CV boots chewed over time. Everytime I had to have the brake hose replaced as well, because of swelling from the grease that came out of the boot.
The first time this happened, the master technician was not able to figure out why the car was pulling to the side so strongly when braking. After cleaning and new pads did not help, he recommended to have the calipers replaced - a big expense, especially considering that I was a student at the time (18 years later I'm still mad at him for that one!). But I did not know any better. Of course it did nothing to fix the problem. In the end, someone tipped me off that there was a service bulleting from Renault that required to replace the brake lines after a CV boot goes bad. A $15 part at the time, and the problem was solved...
Thanks everyone for explaining this!
03-03-2003, 05:53 PM
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Just having installed the new rubber lines, I can attest that the feeling of a tight line with no swelling gives you a much harder brake feel. My originals (17 years old) were starting to look iffy, some dry rot. The new lines have a much firmer feel on hard braking.
If I were using the car on the track only, where I would be inspecting the brakes and lines regularly, I might consider the SS lines. But, the originals, lasting 17 years, gives me peace of mind that there won't be a failure as Marc has noted and as Dave Roberts has told me. A failure at the wrong time is deadly.
If I were using the car on the track only, where I would be inspecting the brakes and lines regularly, I might consider the SS lines. But, the originals, lasting 17 years, gives me peace of mind that there won't be a failure as Marc has noted and as Dave Roberts has told me. A failure at the wrong time is deadly.