K Jetronic Problem
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From: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
K Jetronic Problem
So who can come up with a possible scenario for this...
I did the Dolphin Mall in Miami today. It was ok, if a bit bilingual.
[Perhaps I should have tried speaking Czech to them. Or French, which I've been studying]
Anyway, on the drive back to the hotel, a flake in an '83 Supra decided to mess with me. In out-cornering him on a cloverleaf, [the Jetta has Eibach lowering springs and Bilstein sport struts], I suddenly was faced with an extreme lean situation. The engine barely ran- with hardly any power. The car was capable of 30 mph max, and backfired badly above that speed. If I let off the throttle a little, it seemed to pick up, hence my lean theory.
My thoughts: The K-Jetronic air sensor was disturbed by the G forces when I basically ran away from them on the cloverleaf [I felt bad because they were probably just kids going to work at the airport and don't understand the automotive pecking order].
ANY help would be well...helpfull!
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
'80 Jetta, with K jetronic.
I did the Dolphin Mall in Miami today. It was ok, if a bit bilingual.
[Perhaps I should have tried speaking Czech to them. Or French, which I've been studying]
Anyway, on the drive back to the hotel, a flake in an '83 Supra decided to mess with me. In out-cornering him on a cloverleaf, [the Jetta has Eibach lowering springs and Bilstein sport struts], I suddenly was faced with an extreme lean situation. The engine barely ran- with hardly any power. The car was capable of 30 mph max, and backfired badly above that speed. If I let off the throttle a little, it seemed to pick up, hence my lean theory.
My thoughts: The K-Jetronic air sensor was disturbed by the G forces when I basically ran away from them on the cloverleaf [I felt bad because they were probably just kids going to work at the airport and don't understand the automotive pecking order].
ANY help would be well...helpfull!
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
'80 Jetta, with K jetronic.
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From: Riyadh
Normy,
My recent lack of power was caused by high warm control pressure, coming from a blocked WUR. Get out your gauge set, and start checking pressure, with the Manuals , or a copy of Watson by your side. Makes it SO easy to nail down stuff. When have some pressure info, get on to Jay for the next step.
good luck
jp
My recent lack of power was caused by high warm control pressure, coming from a blocked WUR. Get out your gauge set, and start checking pressure, with the Manuals , or a copy of Watson by your side. Makes it SO easy to nail down stuff. When have some pressure info, get on to Jay for the next step.
good luck
jp
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From: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
Hmm...
After the car started running badly on the cloverleaf, I managed to "nurse" it to where I was staying. I stood in the parking lot and revved the engine- I could hold the throttle wide open and the engine ran, but was barely there and it produced a funny smell- kind of like an old school bus.
I shut the car down and scratched my head. I pulled on everything, shook the whole car, looked at all the hoses...nothing was obvious. I returned to the cockpit and started it up again...
It ran perfect!
Is it possible that the G loading the car experienced in the turn upset the control pressure regulator?
Normy!
After the car started running badly on the cloverleaf, I managed to "nurse" it to where I was staying. I stood in the parking lot and revved the engine- I could hold the throttle wide open and the engine ran, but was barely there and it produced a funny smell- kind of like an old school bus.
I shut the car down and scratched my head. I pulled on everything, shook the whole car, looked at all the hoses...nothing was obvious. I returned to the cockpit and started it up again...
It ran perfect!
Is it possible that the G loading the car experienced in the turn upset the control pressure regulator?
Normy!
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Posts: 2,747
Likes: 3
From: Owasso, OK
Normy,
The high lateral G's could have loosened something in the fuel tank and plugged the intake line. Water in the fuel tank would be another possibility. Also, a bad cat with broken internals could have shifted and caused your problem. I would start with the gas line dryer.
Dennis
The high lateral G's could have loosened something in the fuel tank and plugged the intake line. Water in the fuel tank would be another possibility. Also, a bad cat with broken internals could have shifted and caused your problem. I would start with the gas line dryer.
Dennis
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From: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
Good grief~
Well, in aviation, we use things known as "simulators" in order to practice emergency procedures.
-These are not simple devices at all; Many are full motion, have wrap-around visuals and cost up to $15 million dollars, with operating costs approaching $1000/hour.
Well, yesterday, since I had 6 day break in training, I decided to drive the '80 Jetta back to Orlando from Miami- about 230 miles. Well, I didn't make it~
About 100 miles into the trip, the Jetta started losing power. It was a gradual loss...at first it felt like I was driving on a slightly rough road- just a very gentle miss that I wasn't really sure was there. Well, it gradually got worse and I was down to about 60 mph when I finally pulled over in Port St. Lucie. I discovered that the car ran fine in traffic, so I changed plans and decided to work my way up the east coast of Florida via US1, which is 55 mph tops and has plenty of stop lights. Like I said, I have 6 days off...
I keep a 3 mm allen wrench in the door pocket [Am I a gear-head or what?] for adjusting the mixture. I decided that the car was running lean- on I-95 I found that at constant throttle, the missing occured. If I hammered it, the car would slowly add speed, but really got smooth when I let off, which sounds like lean to me. I suspect that I'm getting "the vapors", or some vaporized fuel at higher speeds and temperatures. I don't have/have not had the fuel pressures tested, but I don't have any reason to suspect that they are low, or that control pressure is incorrect.
So, back in my 727 days, before Express One International shut down and gave me a WHOLE LOT of time off to enjoy my shark, I had to hit the "box" or simulator every 6 months. Since we had some awesome instructors, I actually looked forward to this. If you put any effort at all into looking over the memory items prior to hitting the box, you could easily pass your checkrides- and have fun in the process! Despite the fact that I am in good shape [I run 6 miles per day, in the Florida heat~] I usually come out of the sim pretty sweaty.
Well, yesterday, I arrived at my house in a rented Hyundai [they've made a LOT of progress, by the way...] with the Jetta in Vero Beach and my self sweaty! I had dealt with:
1. Engine problems
2. Hydraulic problems
3. Bad weather
In the Jetta, I worked my way up US1, passing through Fort Pierce and into Vero Beach, home of the famous Piper Aircraft corporation. Really, I was enjoying the drive-
Suddenly, my cellphone started vibrating in my pocket. Lucy, the United Airlines first officer that I've known for years was calling me to gossip about our friends. "Hey, hang on a sec, let me pull over" I said. Please, when you use a cellphone in your car, pull the hell over-
And the brake pedal made love with the floor~
yes SIR, this got 100% of my attention! I pumped the brakes and managed to enter the parking lot of a bank [on two wheels, it felt like!] without killing anyone or myself. Examination revealed a small puddle of brake fluid at the right front tire. I walked to an auto parts store, and they told me that a Midas muffler shop was down the street, so I pulled out of the bank and used the parking brake to get me to the shop [can you say "scary"?]. Up on the lift, the cause was obvious- a blown hydraulic line caused by the fact that a rubber line was rubbing against the wheel. Dammit-I've been kicking myself hard for not noticing and fixing this beforehand!
Well, it was a Saturday. Believe it or not, '80 Jetta brake lines are not at EVERY parts store in the country, so they didn't have the part.
Gawd, I was surprised-
I was not encouraged by the attitudes of the Midas employees... who were condescending and vaguely insulting, despite the fact that they probably had a combined IQ approaching my body weight of 145 pounds. I was VERY happy to have some place open on a Saturday, and told them such, holding my famously forked tongue-
OK. I was stuck, 100 miles from home, with a bunch of my stuff. So I rented a car- an Elantra, by the aforementioned Korean chaibol.
And on the way, I hit a hail storm that lowered visibility to 50 meters...
So for the first time in my driving history that goes back to 1982, I pulled over for conditions. The hail was only 1/2 inch, so it didn't hurt the "kinchi" car.
Pulled over, I was like "I am going home. I AM GOING F@KING HOME!!!!" Despite what was going on!
I had...engine problems, hydraulic problems, and bad weather. I'm like...this is the sim that comes later in the training! I know jetta systems somewhat... but not enough. This WHOLE post is a question-
What would cause a K-jetronic powered car to lose power and rely on slower roads like this? Personally, I suspect some sort of lean running, caused by bad fuel. I've been in Miami for the past month, and there has been a LOT of rain.
Important Point! Why am I asking about '80 Jetta problems on a 928 internet site? Because the Jetta has a fuel injection system similar to early sharks [in fact, many parts are the same] and many shark owners my benefit from my words.
What do y'all think?
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
Well, in aviation, we use things known as "simulators" in order to practice emergency procedures.
-These are not simple devices at all; Many are full motion, have wrap-around visuals and cost up to $15 million dollars, with operating costs approaching $1000/hour.
Well, yesterday, since I had 6 day break in training, I decided to drive the '80 Jetta back to Orlando from Miami- about 230 miles. Well, I didn't make it~
About 100 miles into the trip, the Jetta started losing power. It was a gradual loss...at first it felt like I was driving on a slightly rough road- just a very gentle miss that I wasn't really sure was there. Well, it gradually got worse and I was down to about 60 mph when I finally pulled over in Port St. Lucie. I discovered that the car ran fine in traffic, so I changed plans and decided to work my way up the east coast of Florida via US1, which is 55 mph tops and has plenty of stop lights. Like I said, I have 6 days off...
I keep a 3 mm allen wrench in the door pocket [Am I a gear-head or what?] for adjusting the mixture. I decided that the car was running lean- on I-95 I found that at constant throttle, the missing occured. If I hammered it, the car would slowly add speed, but really got smooth when I let off, which sounds like lean to me. I suspect that I'm getting "the vapors", or some vaporized fuel at higher speeds and temperatures. I don't have/have not had the fuel pressures tested, but I don't have any reason to suspect that they are low, or that control pressure is incorrect.
So, back in my 727 days, before Express One International shut down and gave me a WHOLE LOT of time off to enjoy my shark, I had to hit the "box" or simulator every 6 months. Since we had some awesome instructors, I actually looked forward to this. If you put any effort at all into looking over the memory items prior to hitting the box, you could easily pass your checkrides- and have fun in the process! Despite the fact that I am in good shape [I run 6 miles per day, in the Florida heat~] I usually come out of the sim pretty sweaty.
Well, yesterday, I arrived at my house in a rented Hyundai [they've made a LOT of progress, by the way...] with the Jetta in Vero Beach and my self sweaty! I had dealt with:
1. Engine problems
2. Hydraulic problems
3. Bad weather
In the Jetta, I worked my way up US1, passing through Fort Pierce and into Vero Beach, home of the famous Piper Aircraft corporation. Really, I was enjoying the drive-
Suddenly, my cellphone started vibrating in my pocket. Lucy, the United Airlines first officer that I've known for years was calling me to gossip about our friends. "Hey, hang on a sec, let me pull over" I said. Please, when you use a cellphone in your car, pull the hell over-
And the brake pedal made love with the floor~
yes SIR, this got 100% of my attention! I pumped the brakes and managed to enter the parking lot of a bank [on two wheels, it felt like!] without killing anyone or myself. Examination revealed a small puddle of brake fluid at the right front tire. I walked to an auto parts store, and they told me that a Midas muffler shop was down the street, so I pulled out of the bank and used the parking brake to get me to the shop [can you say "scary"?]. Up on the lift, the cause was obvious- a blown hydraulic line caused by the fact that a rubber line was rubbing against the wheel. Dammit-I've been kicking myself hard for not noticing and fixing this beforehand!
Well, it was a Saturday. Believe it or not, '80 Jetta brake lines are not at EVERY parts store in the country, so they didn't have the part.
Gawd, I was surprised-
I was not encouraged by the attitudes of the Midas employees... who were condescending and vaguely insulting, despite the fact that they probably had a combined IQ approaching my body weight of 145 pounds. I was VERY happy to have some place open on a Saturday, and told them such, holding my famously forked tongue-
OK. I was stuck, 100 miles from home, with a bunch of my stuff. So I rented a car- an Elantra, by the aforementioned Korean chaibol.
And on the way, I hit a hail storm that lowered visibility to 50 meters...
So for the first time in my driving history that goes back to 1982, I pulled over for conditions. The hail was only 1/2 inch, so it didn't hurt the "kinchi" car.
Pulled over, I was like "I am going home. I AM GOING F@KING HOME!!!!" Despite what was going on!
I had...engine problems, hydraulic problems, and bad weather. I'm like...this is the sim that comes later in the training! I know jetta systems somewhat... but not enough. This WHOLE post is a question-
What would cause a K-jetronic powered car to lose power and rely on slower roads like this? Personally, I suspect some sort of lean running, caused by bad fuel. I've been in Miami for the past month, and there has been a LOT of rain.
Important Point! Why am I asking about '80 Jetta problems on a 928 internet site? Because the Jetta has a fuel injection system similar to early sharks [in fact, many parts are the same] and many shark owners my benefit from my words.
What do y'all think?
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
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From: Riyadh
Normy,
Your lack of power is the same symptom I got with high control pressure - loss of power and response, except very very slllooowwwww acceleration. I was a bout 3 miles from home on a freeway exit when it went bad, and had to creep the last bit at about 20mph. Added fuel, but it didnt help. It could be pump, filter, dampers etc also. I first checked delivery rate (~1250ml/30secs -ok), which indicated that pump was ok, filter was not clogged (month old), distributor not clogged. Also injectors all recently cleaned.
Delivery rate is an easy check (two spanners, receptacle, watch), then you need the gauge set to go further.
I also had a session with a friend on a sim - Airbus A300 in Oz - wonderful experience, even without motion turned on, the sound effects are great. Dont forget there was a guy killed 10 years ago or so when a motion computer went beserk, and he didnt have a belt on!
good luck
jp
Your lack of power is the same symptom I got with high control pressure - loss of power and response, except very very slllooowwwww acceleration. I was a bout 3 miles from home on a freeway exit when it went bad, and had to creep the last bit at about 20mph. Added fuel, but it didnt help. It could be pump, filter, dampers etc also. I first checked delivery rate (~1250ml/30secs -ok), which indicated that pump was ok, filter was not clogged (month old), distributor not clogged. Also injectors all recently cleaned.
Delivery rate is an easy check (two spanners, receptacle, watch), then you need the gauge set to go further.
I also had a session with a friend on a sim - Airbus A300 in Oz - wonderful experience, even without motion turned on, the sound effects are great. Dont forget there was a guy killed 10 years ago or so when a motion computer went beserk, and he didnt have a belt on!
good luck
jp
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<img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" />
Unfortunately, lots of people get killed because they don't put the belt on when they should. Princess Diana was probably one of the most famous ones.
Yet, lots of people continue to believe they can do without (my own father is one of them, thinks he does not need it around town). In reality, the forces can be incredible!
Well... I know I would not be here writig this tonight, if I wasn't religious about buckleing up!!!
Unfortunately, lots of people get killed because they don't put the belt on when they should. Princess Diana was probably one of the most famous ones.
Yet, lots of people continue to believe they can do without (my own father is one of them, thinks he does not need it around town). In reality, the forces can be incredible!
Well... I know I would not be here writig this tonight, if I wasn't religious about buckleing up!!!
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From: New York
Nicole: Did you realize jpitman was referring to a person killed in a simulator? That is some motion control they have. As a former B-52 nav, we did simulator time, but no seat belts required, at least not in 1969. Power On! 
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,747
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From: Owasso, OK
Normy,
The CIS system is simple but has a lot of parts that may cause your problem. Some are as follows:
1. Plugged filter (how old? did the high G's pull up crud?)
2. Plugged return line
3. Bad or plugged fuel pump (do the output test)
4. Bad relief valve (on distributor)
If none of these are the culprit, then you need to get a CIS test gauge to check the WUR and distributor.
Dennis
The CIS system is simple but has a lot of parts that may cause your problem. Some are as follows:
1. Plugged filter (how old? did the high G's pull up crud?)
2. Plugged return line
3. Bad or plugged fuel pump (do the output test)
4. Bad relief valve (on distributor)
If none of these are the culprit, then you need to get a CIS test gauge to check the WUR and distributor.
Dennis
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<img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" />
Yes, Steve, I DID realize that. I was making a more general statement about the belt issue. If a simulator simulates reality, there will be forces way beyond what you and I can ever imagine, therefore it is a good idea to take some precautions.
Whether it is in the car or in an airplane, when the seat belt sign goes on - too many people don't get it! Today, I read that in Rhode Island only 5% of the teens buckle up! In CA it is supposedly 65% - still not even close to good enough in my opinion.
After all, we are not in a Hollywood movie (where the bad guys die, and the good people magically suvive anything without a scratch...)
<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />
Yes, Steve, I DID realize that. I was making a more general statement about the belt issue. If a simulator simulates reality, there will be forces way beyond what you and I can ever imagine, therefore it is a good idea to take some precautions.
Whether it is in the car or in an airplane, when the seat belt sign goes on - too many people don't get it! Today, I read that in Rhode Island only 5% of the teens buckle up! In CA it is supposedly 65% - still not even close to good enough in my opinion.
After all, we are not in a Hollywood movie (where the bad guys die, and the good people magically suvive anything without a scratch...)
<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />
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From: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
An update~
Today I managed to get the Jetta back to my house in Orlando, though not without some drama.
I left Vero Beach in the morning, continuing my plan to use the secondary roads on the way to my home in Orlando, about 100 miles away. Well, I got about 50 miles north, on a desolate stretch of US1 when the car started acting up. It was down to about 45 mph when I got fed up and pulled into a car repair shop in Cocoa Beach.
Again, the symptoms- after a long drive, the car starts to get weak, and actualy starts missing. If I floor the throttle, it pops and bangs, slowly picking up speed but clearly struggling. If I let off, or cruise with a normal throttle setting, it runs smoothly for a few hundred yards, then I start to feel the missing again. I suspect it is getting lean somehow.
The car repair shop was swamped, and couldn't help me, but refered me to a place down the road. The car ran better as I approached the second shop, after having sat for 10 minutes at the first shop. The second place was no better-everyone's car was breaking down today, apparently. Just my luck!
I walked to a convenience store next door, and considered my options over a bottle of Gatorade. On a whim, I pulled the fuel pump relay and replaced it with the spare that I keep in the glove box. I pulled out of the shop...and the car ran great!
Feeling a little more confident, I decided to chance the 35 mile miles of hwy 528, which runs from Cocoa to Orlando through what I think is some of the most beautiful country this side of the Keys. It is also perhaps the most desolate- literally nothing [save one prison] but woods and sawgrass swamps exist along its whole route.
Hopefully, it will stay this way.
AND OF COURSE...2/3 of the way through 'gator country...the problem started recurring. I pulled over near the prison when I was down to 40 mph.
For yucks and grins and troubleshooting, I decided to swap the fuel pump relays again. Sure enough- the car ran great, but this time for about 10 miles. I was down to about 45 again when I finally pulled into my neighborhood.
-Other than shoot the thing, I cannot figure out what to do with it. I don't need the car and it needs a bunch of work, so I'm going to park it until I can figure out what is wrong. Unfortunately, I don't have a pressure tester or much time at home...so any hints in the right direction would be helpfull.
Hopefully, I'll figure it out and some early Shark owner will also solve a problem on his car from this thread!
-As to seatbelts, I always wear them-I don't feel completely dressed without them. Sadly, I've noticed quite a few people don't put on their seatbelts when they get into my car until they notice me doing it.
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
Today I managed to get the Jetta back to my house in Orlando, though not without some drama.
I left Vero Beach in the morning, continuing my plan to use the secondary roads on the way to my home in Orlando, about 100 miles away. Well, I got about 50 miles north, on a desolate stretch of US1 when the car started acting up. It was down to about 45 mph when I got fed up and pulled into a car repair shop in Cocoa Beach.
Again, the symptoms- after a long drive, the car starts to get weak, and actualy starts missing. If I floor the throttle, it pops and bangs, slowly picking up speed but clearly struggling. If I let off, or cruise with a normal throttle setting, it runs smoothly for a few hundred yards, then I start to feel the missing again. I suspect it is getting lean somehow.
The car repair shop was swamped, and couldn't help me, but refered me to a place down the road. The car ran better as I approached the second shop, after having sat for 10 minutes at the first shop. The second place was no better-everyone's car was breaking down today, apparently. Just my luck!
I walked to a convenience store next door, and considered my options over a bottle of Gatorade. On a whim, I pulled the fuel pump relay and replaced it with the spare that I keep in the glove box. I pulled out of the shop...and the car ran great!
Feeling a little more confident, I decided to chance the 35 mile miles of hwy 528, which runs from Cocoa to Orlando through what I think is some of the most beautiful country this side of the Keys. It is also perhaps the most desolate- literally nothing [save one prison] but woods and sawgrass swamps exist along its whole route.
Hopefully, it will stay this way.
AND OF COURSE...2/3 of the way through 'gator country...the problem started recurring. I pulled over near the prison when I was down to 40 mph.
For yucks and grins and troubleshooting, I decided to swap the fuel pump relays again. Sure enough- the car ran great, but this time for about 10 miles. I was down to about 45 again when I finally pulled into my neighborhood.
-Other than shoot the thing, I cannot figure out what to do with it. I don't need the car and it needs a bunch of work, so I'm going to park it until I can figure out what is wrong. Unfortunately, I don't have a pressure tester or much time at home...so any hints in the right direction would be helpfull.
Hopefully, I'll figure it out and some early Shark owner will also solve a problem on his car from this thread!
-As to seatbelts, I always wear them-I don't feel completely dressed without them. Sadly, I've noticed quite a few people don't put on their seatbelts when they get into my car until they notice me doing it.
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
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Normy:
Glad to hear you made it home. I know how frustrated it can be to get stranded...
As to seatbelt usage of passengers - I just don't start driving until they are all buckled up.
I even got out of the car once, when my Dad was visiting and insisted he would not need the belt in the back seat. He finally put it on...
It does not help to remind him that he would not even have a chance to ride with me, if it was not for the seatbelt in a 911 SC (my first ever ride in a Porsche ended on the car's roof...)
Glad to hear you made it home. I know how frustrated it can be to get stranded...
As to seatbelt usage of passengers - I just don't start driving until they are all buckled up.
I even got out of the car once, when my Dad was visiting and insisted he would not need the belt in the back seat. He finally put it on...
It does not help to remind him that he would not even have a chance to ride with me, if it was not for the seatbelt in a 911 SC (my first ever ride in a Porsche ended on the car's roof...)
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From: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
Nicole-
I agree with your thoughts completely.
-How anyone who has the taste and brains to purchase/ drive a 928 would not recognize the obvious benefits of seat belts is beyond me, but then again...when some clown in a Crown Vic is edging out up ahead...I keep my eyes on him!
I drive defensively! I also believe that the most important skill in driving a car is the correct use of the eyes.
I think it is good you got out. [Noted, by the way....not that I've had any problems with other aviators]. I think I'll do the same.
Fly safe-
Normy!
I agree with your thoughts completely.
-How anyone who has the taste and brains to purchase/ drive a 928 would not recognize the obvious benefits of seat belts is beyond me, but then again...when some clown in a Crown Vic is edging out up ahead...I keep my eyes on him!
I drive defensively! I also believe that the most important skill in driving a car is the correct use of the eyes.
I think it is good you got out. [Noted, by the way....not that I've had any problems with other aviators]. I think I'll do the same.
Fly safe-
Normy!