dr bob

More than a few interesting cars have sold without making it into the public eye. We watch the B-J auctions on TV and believe that every '70's 'cuda is worth $100k. Maybe there are a few that sell for that. The majority of them are still rustbuckets someplace, maybe in somebody's back yard or even in use as a wornout driver. Buy for $10k or $50, put $50k or more in a frame-up resto, sell it at B-J for $80-100K if you are very fortunate, and --maybe-- net $10-20k after a year of work and parts searching. If it was a good business to be in, more people would be in it. But the highlight footage of the glamour auctions is one or two cars, and there are limited audiences for $100k 'cudas. Really limited. When you find a few more cars to sell, you have to dip down into the $40-50k level to sell all of them. A few more offereings and you start to look more like a used car auction than a collector car auction.

The 928 is still in that transition, because there are still a lot of them on the market that barely qualify as used cars, much less collectible examples. As more than a few have pointed out, there will a stratified layer of buyers even for the 928, where one or two top cars will grab top dollar. If I were in the market for a GTS, I'd look for one that had no miles, and I'm almost ready to suggest that a car that had hever been worked on except for fluid changes would be better than one that had been worked on by most anyone else. There may be more deterioration due to poor maintenance than from no maintenance if you know what I mean.

So long as there are 928's available as "used cars", where you are making a purchase decision based on gas mileage and whether the guy at the gas station can keep it tuned up, the largest part of the market will be lucky to stay level. At some point the cars will be too expensive to drive. The lesser "used car" market cars will turn into parts cars, too expensive to even maintain much less restore. Ten to twenty years later, the few that are left will sell for collector car prices only because the number of great cars and the number of great buyers will be more closely matched.

----

I bought my car 9 years ago last month for less than the price of an Accord or Taurus at the time. I spend maybe $1-2k a year beyond what that same Taurus would cost to operate in tires, gas, insurance, scheduled and unscheduled maintenence, etc. In that 9 years I've added about 50k miles. I can speculate that the car would sell yoday for some price slightly higher than what I paid the PO for it. The Taurus would be worth 20% maybe. I have the car that Harvey is looking for, except it's an automatic. But his budget is too small right now, and I do enjoy driving the car just a bit anyway. Maybe someday when I can't enjoy the car, it will pass gracefully into the hands of a new owner, one who shares my appreciation for this particular car. If it has depreciated to a dollar I won't be damaged. But I anticipate that it will be worth more rather than less, so long as I can keep it up the way it has been so far.

Harvey, good luck in your search brother! Your car is out there someplace. Maybe a hard-luck situation where your cash can rescue an owner in distress. Maybe you'll stumble on to a perfect car in the local Pennysaver or at a local Ford dealer trade-in before it goes to auction. It could happen... More realistically, your perfectly-maintained car is in the hands of someone who has the same knowledge of and appreciation for the value and costs of keeping the car in excellent shape. That car will not be as cheap as others, but will almost undoubtedly be a better value than one of the "used" cars that still flood the market.

I have room in the garage for a F430 or maybe one of those nice Maranello touring cars. If I sold the 928 I'd have room for both.

bronto

FWIW, the Cuda's that sell for that much are very special. If I remember my mopar history right, there are Barracudas, Cudas, and Hemi Cudas, all distinct upgrades. My brother watches the American musclecar market more than I do, and I seem to recall him talking about this and that the Cudas that are going for that much are fewer than a dozen in existence and was restored to concourse winner level.

low miler

Like many have already stated, there's bargains, great ones in fact, out there if you have the time and patience to find one. Believe it or not, there are still original owners out there that do not know their 5 speed is worth anymore than an automatic of the same year, miles, condition etc. These are the sellers I continually look for. I've actually had sellers out there who use the KBB on their 20,000 mile '89 5 speed S4. And speaking of '89 5 speeds, I've had the unexpected pleasure of purchasing two of my '89 GT's thru PO's that didn't even know it was a GT and specifically advertised them as basic S4's. This is where the deals are.

As far as these cars going up in value, it's inevitable. I don't see it happening tomorrow or anytime in the very near future, but at some point in the next 10 years or less, it's going too. I'll guarantee it! Due to the very limited production numbers, handbuilt quality, original MSRP's, uniqueness, and the usual "what the hell kind of car is that"? comments, it's going to happen. I would compare the boom to something like it's somewhat brother, the Lamborghini (sp?) Muira. 10 years ago, those cars could be bought for around $50-$70K. Not anymore!

Now, if your looking for a short term investment, I'd go elsewhere, avoiding any cars alltogether. Booms are fades and don't last forever. If you get lucky when the time actually does come, just hope your in possession of a nice, low mileage '88 Club Sport or HE! The sky will be the limit on those cars, followed a far third by the '89 GT, '95 GTS, '94 GTS and finally the '93 GTS. But any and all years will ride the wave as well.

As for me, when the time actually does come and I don't own a single one, I'll be trying to convince my grandchildren that I really did own each and every one of those cars at some point, while at the same time, trying to convince them I'm not crazy!

P.S. Hemi Cudas in Hemmings magazine are now demanding prices up to $990,000! No, I didn't mean $99,000 either, rather $990,000. And that's a Crysler product for Gods sake!

soltino

This thread got me to wondering if there is any way to find all 928s and their owners.

Is this on public record and who is authorized to obtain this information?


tino

danglerb

Get the 30 day unlimited CarCheck thing and run all the 928 VIN numbers.

One of the Big3 sites has the VIN number ranges by year I think. They also have production totals by year both worldwide and USA.

And what about the 5 928 it shows as 1996?

F451

http://www.928registry.org/

Has a lot of cars listed, some with contact info (iirc).

danglerb

I honestly don't know what I am prepared to pay at this point. It was the $8k ebay cars that got me stirred up, but cars in the $15k to $20k range may be closer to what I want, just not what I want to pay.

I plan to keep whatever car I get a long time, and as soon as I know the car is a keeper, that sunroof is going, and I can't see that costing much less than $3k.

I enjoy finding a good deal, so once I am ready to buy, I expect to have some fun with it and do some serious looking. Online stuff isn't looking, its just not missing an opportunity if one shows up.

mpesik

-man. So much car for so little.
Buy of the century.
-really strange

low miler

Well, for $20K, my '89 GT can be bought that has already had absolutely everything major done to it..................very recently. And I mean right down to the smallest detail including new radiator decals, alarm decals, unleaded fuel only decals, plus major engine work (no rebuilds or overhauls, though). Cosmetically comparison to a 40K car. Drives like one as well.

You know, I never had any idea that a high mileage 928 would ride identically to a low mileage 928, but it really does! That says alot about the 928 in terms of longevity and structural soundness. They really are magnificent cars...........

Andre Hedrick

OB 5/78 for 19,900 Euro or $25,600USD

Look on http://www.mobile.de for where prices are going.

danglerb

Todd I am sure your car is a dandy choice for many, but out of the last 30 days of cars it isn't my first choice, and I really hope to do even better locally once I start seriously hunting shark.

I tested the water today with my wife about would she really mind that much if a 928 goes in the garage before she has a spot to park her Lincoln, just a temporary thing while waiting for whatever parts or work it needs can be done.

I'm still allowed in the house, but just barely.

Vilhuer

All where normal '95 MY GTS which just happened to be first registered year late because of slow sales. Nothing special in them. There are several row cars which for some reason spend many more years somewhere before they were registered first time for road use. Doesn't make them any more valuable.

As 928 gets old market get split more and more into two. Small number of cars which are relly like new condition will get steadily higher. All others come down until they are worth more in parts than as a whole. In many cases this has already happened. Next large problem will take these cheap ones of the roads. Its cheaper to dismantle car with major problems and buy one with is in slightly better shape. One day in not so far future these cheap yet running examples will all be used up. Thats the day when price hike really starts and it becomes worthwhile to restore decent body car back to original condition.

danglerb

Hmmm, I was just reading the 928 buyers guide in 911 & Porsche World, and it said something like the last 5 cars rolled off the production line in 1996. Surely the last few VIN number cars will be collectible, the VERY last 928 has to be seen as a special car.

Long term market value doesn't concern me. I will be buying a car and loving or hating it within 6 months. If its love then I will either keep it forever, or sell it for the best model year I can swing. If its not love, well one doesn't keep an unloved 928 longer than it takes to sell at a prudent price. What happens in the next year is all that is going to really matter to me.

Vilhuer

Production ended at July or August '95 AFAIK. S was last VIN year which was used. Any and all websites and articles seem to always faulty information when it comes to production numbers and years. There isn't one single source which have managed to have it all right. Jörg Austen's book is close, yet even it has some printing errors.

There exists basically two very last 928 GTS, green special for US market and last ROW model for Porsche factory museum. Both were automatics. Porsche factory has also last manual gearbox GTS made I believe. It was done some months before automatic production ended. Green last US is most collectable car available as its only one of two lasts which is believed to be owned other than factory and it has so special equipment. If it came for sale now and were still in same condition as last seen years ago I think it would bring its original $170K sticker price or very close to it at least. Might take some time to sell but it would bring it eventually.

H2

Lo Miler ain't no Lo Miler any more? (I couldn't resist...I'm looking forward to seeing your Hi Miler GT. It must be really good for you to weaken and put money into it.

H2