cobalt

I didn't realise they changed this. I agree I like the black leather insert better than cashmere against the black.

The only record I am missing is the window sticker but I recall they were several thousand $$. Funny old and heavy analog technology. The only thing left of value is the center console. The phone just gets in the way.

Didn't realise they changed their methods in 91 although if I have the lower seat panels in Cashmere I was presuming the next to last 5 speed built might have gotten what was left in the bins instead of dieing an additional set with only a few left to manufacture. I have seen them do this countless times on 911's nearing their production run end.


I have to agree that the price Willhoit sold me my car for was a bargain considering its condition and current values. I did not see the car when you did but I did see High res pictures from about the same time, all I can say is when it arrived it was in Concours winning condition. Not a mark or blemish anywhere. A few minor stone chips that were nicely touched up but that was it. I know the one side rear quarter was repainted but I had John Patereck the National PCA paint expert look it over and he insists the job was top notch and the rest other than the bumpers is original paint and could not detect any damage so he felt it was just a respray on the one section. It also came with every record from day one. The only thing missing was the window sticker. I traced back the records to Holbert Motors and they claim I have all records about the car on file and it was mechanically blemish free. I also contacted the original owner and he had nothing negative to say about it other than it was missed. You had mentioned to me that the original owner stated it burned a lot of oil yet from what I gather it was never an issue and I have no need to add oil between oil changes. So far with 7500 miles driven in the past year and a half it has been perfect. The only problem is a sticky lifter that makes noise if I don't drive it for more than 3 weeks but it goes away after 10 min of warming up and doesn't come back unless it sits again and the slight leak coming from the tranny main seal. But this amounts to a few drops after it has been driven long distances.

I am sorry it did not work out for you yet grateful because I love this GTS. It keeps winning awards and gets lots of attention. Although it only took second at the Zone 1 event I am sure I can do better next year since the beautiful GT that took 1st had the mileage advantage and got the extra points for distance coming down from Montreal. People are shocked when I tell them it has over 60k miles most people look at it and guess it has more like 10k.

pewter82

Cobalt, I liked the car you bought, it came in right after a Black GTS 5-speed had been sold a day before I called Wilhoit. I didn't think I was going to like the color, but it definately grew on me. i think it would have been a good buy on a GTS at that time. I too talked to everyone on the car and got the whole backround, from the engine locked up, to the damage it had sustained. I was able to see it as it arrived and to me that was a good thing to do before he had a chance to do the work on it. I still was going to buy it regardless, but Wilhoit and I didn't see eye to eye on the GT I had just bought from him and discovered its past after I had owned it for several months...he knows about almost all the GT and GTS's out there...I found it hard to believe that particular GT history had slipped his mind since he had owned it twice before selling it to me...either way its history now.
I ended up buying Stan Pendergraths 93 about a year later and that car had the documentation and trophys from its distinguished past...but honestly for the price, the car was not more enjoyable than any other 928 I have owned, so I sold it to Greg in Maine.
I currently have a 93 ZR-1 with 14K on the odo, that i have purchased from a private collection and the Corvette community is very strong here ,so I have been having alot of fun lately, like you guys do on the coasts! lol
I'll be parting with the 83 S 5-speed I picked up early this year with 64K and I'll be posting an ad if anyone is interested. I need the garage space basically, still love the 928, I'll just be moving in another direction for awhile.

jason

83 S 5-speed USA Guards/Camel 64K
93 ZR-1 6-speed Artic/Black 1 of 22 / 189 of 448

cobalt

Jason,

I spoke to just about everyone including Chuck Z about my car yet you seem to be the only one who knows something about the engine locking up and supposed damage it sustained. To be honest I have gone over every square inch of the car with experts of the highest caliber and they can find no body damage. Chucks friend and I believe co founder of the 928 registry Stu Zeh who was at the time National PCA concours chairman and owner of the 1st original all steal boodied 356 cab and John Paterek National PCA paint expert can't seem to find any indication of what you are talking about. I have also gone over the entire engine bay with local experts and they seem to feel the engine is original without any major work done to it. They showed me on another GTS tell tail signs of what would occur if an engine had been pulled and there is no signs of anything. Not to mention all hoses and components had their original date stamps on them and all nuts that are painted to show factory torque settings are in place without any signs of being disturbed. You said Chuck Z new about the problem with the car, yet his reponse to me is he knew nothing about it.

I don't know when or where you feel all this happened but the records read so complete that the only place that anything could have happened would have been from the last owner who had it for 6 months just before Michael bought it. I have little to no records during the 3rd owners, ownership. Otherwise there is a reciept and record for just about every month up until the 3 rd owner purchased it. I have a freind who has a good friend that worked at Holbert Motors and his freind could not find any hidden repair bills or anything that would lead anyone to believe that engine work was ever done on the car.

I am at a loss and am starting to think we are talking about 2 different cars.

I will say that compression is near perfect and the engine is very strong. If you have more specific info regarding my car I would appreciate it but I cannot find anything you are talking about.

These are low res picture Mike sent me some 4 weeks before I took delivery just a few days after you posted your thread about this car and your problems with Michael initially. It was my understanding he had the car for a very small period at this point. If work was done I want him to do it on anything else I may need fixed because he has the experts stumped.

cobalt

Jason,

As you can see in these pictures the car was fine. Michael sent me these 2 days after you walked from the deal. So he had no time to make any changes. I had inside info about the car myself and Michael was shocked to find out someone else new about the car.

I also have this old picture from the registry which dates back pretty far and the pictures of the engine now. Normally if someone removes engines or components something is replaced slightly different than it was removed. I see nothing showing any changes.

So like I said PM me if you have specific facts about my car. I would appreciate knowing everything.

Good luck with your ZR1. When I had my GTS delivered it came with a 4500 mile original ZR-1 white with IIRC red interior. Nice car I always felt they were very similar to the 928 although I never was a vette person myself.


BTW I did replace all the hoses dated 1992 when I first got the car so the one hose that goes under instead of over was done by me. I think I need to change that.

low miler

Anthony,

Was there anyone else at all that comes to mind, perhaps a gentleman in Indiana, that also helped you out in locating that car? Just curious.

LOL! I'm just playin' around with ya', but it certainly sounds like your enjoying it anyway.

cobalt

Well now that you mention it I believe there was. I am forever greatful, if your ever around NJ area make sure you look me up. I trully love the GTS.

I recently have had a chance to drive 3 others and surprisingly found mine to be on par or more enjoyable. Two were autos and had not been as well cared for and to be honest my car just felt so much faster and stronger. One had less mileage and it was sputtering and something was wrong with it. When the owner drove mine he wanted to trade. The third belongs to my sisters friend and he had just spent the cost of a nice GT to have the interior redone in all leather. Nice black 5 speed with 15k original miles and full black leather and wood interior. I really liked the interior and would love to do that to mine but can't justify the expense. After driving and comparing my car against this 15k mile original car I have to say mine could have passed as a 15k mile car also. In fact with the upgraded bilstein sport suspension and 928 specialist sways my car drove better than the car with less mileage and the paint was equally as nice but I like the Amazon green better myself.

Like I said thanks again and I am very greatful you helped me find such a wonderful example. My hat is off to you.

low miler

Anthony,

The pleasure was all mine. I'm just glad to hear that it's really that nice. I mean, better than a 15K car, speaks volumes! And beware, I might just take you up on your offer to visit. I need a month or two vacation anyway.

And may I make a serious suggestion concerning that wood interior you speak of. Are you familiar with Jager Engineering. They specialize in very high quality aftermarket 928 parts. They've come up with answers for the usual 928 faults, such as the dash temp sensor cap that always cracks. They created a cap that actually fits right over the old one, but yet still looks like the original. Genious!

And I've also purchased alot of their door arrestors. The faulty 928 piece that breaks, and doesn't allow for the door to stay open anymore. In the old days, you were forced to purchase a new door stop (arrestor) that would involve removing the entire door panel to get to. This one not only works great, lasts forever, but is completely non-evasive as far as installing. It simply goes directly on top of the old unit, doesn't require romoval of the door panel, and is completely undetectable.

Okay, as far as wood interior upgrades go, they've come up with exact replicas for all the factory wood upgrades, in both appearance and quality. The door wood panel inserts look great, as well as the center shift surround and analog clock area.

Oh yeah, and the prices are practically criminal when compared to the identical factory pieces!

I'll try and attach their site for you to check out. Personally, I wouldn't go anywhere else. In fact, someone just created a thread on this, or added to someone elses post that in a side by side comparison with a factory wood optioned car, that the Jager Engineering piece not only looked better, but believe it or not, seemed to be of better quality as well.

I found the attachment:http://jageng.com/garage9/product_in...9ce59344060394

They also have the real wood for around the clock, and shifter, as well as the upgraded gold clock. You've gotta check these guys out!

I'm gonna save you a bunch of money, and it's not on your car insurance either!

regards, Todd (low miler)

pewter82

I believe i still have the documents I came up with on the car. From the original dealer Hobert and the man who purchased it with the engine locked up. He owns a body shop and a tow service and was the company called by Hobert to pick the car up. He made an offer on the car after the original owner had complained of excessive oil consumption and wanted to get a different car. The engine was replaced and billed under warranty to another 928 that was on the lot from Holbert...and the pistons were drilled.
this was some of the first info I recieved on the car, I don't know why you were never told the same thing...Holbert told me this and the 2nd owner confirmed it .
Chuck did not know this car, and had first warned me of it thinking it was a different car he had looked at back east.
I kept the names and info I gathered on the car and I will search for them for you. the damage was easy to see when the car was still sitting dirty. front right Quarter repaint, bolts removed, left rear IIRC repaint evident up to door jam. Wihoit said he could make the overspray go away and make it match. there was a long scratch on the rear quater as well which was to be painted as well.
Thats when I further investigated, the last owner in the NW left the scratch on the car the time he owned it and with the trash inside the car I was curious how much he maintained the car when he had it.
Not taking anything away from your car Cobalt, and this is not sour grapes, I would still want the car today if it was offered by anyone else LOL.
I was told Stans car was "perfect" too but later found it not to be, thats why I sold it to the next guy for a more correct price.
I love the ZR-1 and this one is the museum piece I guess I needed...and from what I hear, the Amazon is now a museum piece as well , keep winning for the 928 community!!

jason

cobalt

jason,

One thing I have learned with dealing with used Porsche's is anything is possible.

I never spoke to the second owner but I am thinking of tracking him down, the first owner never mentioned anything about oil consumption. His biggest peeve about the car was the battery draining multiple times and the hood release cable breaking several times other than that he loved the car.

My friends, friend no longer works at Holbert but he did a pretty extensive search and came up with nothing to show a seized motor. In fact I ended up with a bunch of records identical to what i already had. Their is no evidence that the heads have ever been pulled on this car (everything appears to be factory installed) and with the way the hose clamps were mounted you would have to remove the engine to mount them that way. They were only accessible from the underside which I can guarantee you there is no way to put them back that way unless the engine was removed from the car or initially installed from the factory that way. I have worked on enough cars to tell when something has been pulled apart and replaced. It is possible the car had an issue and was easily repairable not requiring an engine rebuild but why would there be no record of it on file. To be honest there seems to be no place in the very complete records for it to fit in, but that still doesn't mean something was done on the sly. I have 1 1/2 " think 3 ring binder full of records. I need to get a bigger binder for the new stuff. If something were done it has proven to be a top quality repair because like I said this car is as clean and as strong as the 15k mile GTS I had driven. BTW I checked the engine serial number to the records and the engine in my car appears to be original. I have never heard of an engine replacement being billed to another car, why would they do that and how can they do that and retain the original engine serial #?

Regarding the paint, I agree the rear quarter was repainted but almost impossible to tell but as far as the front fender, I doubt it. I have pulled all the wheel well covers in the process of cleaning. There is no evidence of any repaint work at all. I Concours cars and have judged and can say it is hard to believe work was done on either front fender. Placement of a few rock chips show me that the paint on the car was not 100% fresh and some of the slight chips were there for some time. Also so far I have only found one bolt that was missing on the entire car and I get into everything.

Like I said There may be a past I am not aware of but whatever was done if done was done to such a high level that the best people in the business would not be able to tell.

If you have records or contact info that may shed new light on the subject I would be greatful if you forwarded it to me via a PM. For now I can only believe what my eyes and experts tell me.

cobalt

BTW the original owner had the car until 2000 that is an awful long time for someone to have a car they had constant problems with and I was not aware Porsche would replace a motor 3 years out of warranty.

Bill Coleman

Oh, THAT car.

I think I posted a link to the ad on Autotrader some time ago - the ad that's still there as of about 5 minutes ago.

Edit - yep:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/263546-95-5sp-for-sale-in-mi.html

Do I get a finder's fee?

pewter82

IIRC the topic of replacing pistons and engine failures has been discussed here before ,and even our dealership that I work for that had a Porsche franchise up until 93, did "warranty" work on cars and billed $$ to existing vehicles on the lot.The service manager that I called said that he did not have paperwork showing the work done to the engine, but that it most likely was billed to another vehicle to get Porsche to pay for the repairs. It was certainly an oil consumption issue and you definatley have drilled pistons now that I am sure of. (this is a good thing)

Chuck Z

Just a point of clarification, there are no co founders of the 928 registry. It's just me. I only know Stu from when he used to be on this list.

low miler

Anthony,

I had a couple GT's back to back with wood shift handles, but my memory is so bad, I can't recall exactly what they looked like, but did they resemble these at all? You could always have them sanded down on top for the shift pattern plate to be installed............................

Vilhuer

http://www.928registry.org/1990-928GT-0502.htm


I believe that to be original.