FlyingDog

I went to work on my car today and it started right up, ran for 30 seconds or so very rough and rich, but slowly smoothing out, then it just died. It fired once then, would do nothing except crank. I replaced the crank position sensor (old one had a destroyed connector). Then it would fire once or twice each time I cranked, but that was all. After messing around with various wires and grounds, we checked spark from a coil wire with a screwdriver. and there was a loud pop from the exhaust. This had been done several times previously with the other coil with no ill effects. Suddenly the car wouldn't fire at all. After a few tries of cranking it, the #1 cylinder was filled with gas and #2 was getting there. It became so hydrolocked on gas that it wouldn't crank. So, out came the plugs. All, except for #4, were completely black. Plugs 1-3 were soaked, 4 was normal, 5 and 6 were wet, 7 and 8 were dry. After cleaning them up it would fire the first time it was cranked after sitting for a few minutes. It did this several times.

After few swaps back and forth between my 84 Euro LH and an 86 US LH (forgot to bring my spare LH) and some playing with the fuel pump relay, we found that it would flood the engine while starting but not once started. The trick was to try to start it once with the relay in, then try it once with just the fuel in the cylinders and the FP relay out. Once it fired, Scott would plug in the FP relay and the car would stumble and stop or it would run. There was a lot of loud popping from behind/below #8. It idled poorly until it warmed up and dropped the idle at which point the idle went to crap. We found some large intake leaks and as we fixed those the idle kept getting better. Finally the thing sounded smoother than ever, but it would pop and crack when opening the throttle. Eventually we did something to cause it to stall. We redid some grounds, fixed more air leaks, and went to fire it up again. We had the same flooding while starting problem, so a few tries with unplugging and plugging the FP relay got it running. It sounded great and with the exception of the #8 exhaust pop (previous owner buggered the studs installing the headers, and I had trouble reinstalling it so it's leaking at the exhaust gasket). It reved easily, but something still wasn't quite right. When we went to try unplugging the MAF, the car died. We haven't been able to get it started since.

The problem occurs with both the 84 Euro LH 2.2 and the 86 US LH 2.2. The car will crank and start without the fuel pump relay in, but sputters out with no fuel supply. If the FP relay is in when trying to start, it floods the engine. When the fuel pump relay is insterted once the engine starts, the car dies almost instantly. The injectors pulse while starting and running, so they aren't just pegging open while starting. The distributors and cams are orientated correctly with respect to the crank.

Iris and Kevin

Hi Matt,

Boy, does this sound like a repeat of the week I had last week, almost to the T. My problem ended up being a combination of problems: a bad temperature sensor II and a fried ignition brain, in addition to which, my factory alarm got turned on accidentally, and then the relay was removed while trying to troubleshoot the igition problem. So try checking your temp sensor II and your alarm; I really hope it's not the brain. Hope this helps. Good luck! Kevin

FlyingDog

Thanks for the suggestions, but Temp II was swapped (forgot to mention it) and I don't have an alarm. I'll keep the EZF ignition brain in mind, but I've heard they are pretty much bulletproof and I don't have a spare.

Iris and Kevin

Yeah, I've been told that the brain was bulletproof, too, but I had a short that backfed up the line and managed to short it out. My car had exactly the same symptoms as yours, and you did say you stuck your screwdriver into the coil, which could have shorted it.

By the by, I didn't think I had an alarm either (I just bought this car a month ago). I had to replace the dashboard and when I was there, I didn't see any evidence of an alarm. But I had pulled that relay out during troubleshooting the ignition problem, because the owner's manual said that position wasn't used, and so did the 9 volume manual...on one page. I thought someone had stuck it in there incorrectly. But when I pulled it out, I had previously activated the alarm without realizing it, and then spent a couple of days trying to find a non-existent short after having replaced the brain and the temp sensor, which were both also bad, definitely. And I should also mention, I bought three sensors at the local parts store, and they all tested bad off the shelf. I ended up having to find one buried in my garage from an 84 US I had just gotten rid of recently.

If there's a relay in the top left position on your fuseboard, then you might have an alarm. Take a look at page 28-51 in the 9 volume manual, where I finally found a different picture showing a 53 relay in that position for the alarm. If there is a relay there, and it's not a 53, try sticking a 53 in there and see if your horn starts blowing when you turn the ignition on.

One last thought, did you check the small wires on the positive battery cable?

Hope this helps!
Kevin

jyoon

i would guess something with the ignition. maybe the ignition control units up front? check the coils? the temp sensor up front in the coolant. is that the temp II you already checked? i assume you have a multimeter to check these parts? is the timing belt ok? the twin distributor belt?

jyoon

i think if the key is a long key, there was factory alarm, if short key none.

FlyingDog

The temp II sensor came from a running-until-it-got-smashed S4. The car did run after the shock. It actually ran better than it has ever run. Would yours fire or run? Everything indicates that this is a fuel issue, not a spark issue.

I know I don't have an alarm. I went through all the alarm wiring previously to yank out an aftermarket alarm. The only relays that have been in the car since May are pictured below (the upper left window relay has since been removed). The car has been driven 100+ miles since then, but not since I pulled the engine out (unless you consider moving 100ft out of the garage being driven).

BTW, I bought my car in Ridgefield (or somewhere near there) two years ago.

ZEUS+

Did you check fuel pressure with a gauge ? A bad regulator could dead head injectors.Secondary ignition fires to ground so checking for spark with a screwdriver wont short anything.

FlyingDog

Haven't checked pressure because when it ran, it ran perfectly. It used to run rich at idle and ping at 2k+ on 93 octane. It didn't smell rich at all at idle and I didn't hear any pinging, but it was hard to hear anything over the exhaust pop coming straight out of the head.

ZEUS+

Are your cylinders fuel washed ? Did you chenge the oil after the fuel hydro ?

FlyingDog

There is no fuel smell in the oil and the level didn't noticably rise. We recreated old faithful with the plugs out then went to lunch to let it dry out. Seems to have worked. It's not the first time the cylinders have seen fuel without fire. I've broken 3 dual distributor belts. This belt is still intact.

John Speake

Fuel leaking into the vac system due to a bad FPR or damper ?

Iris and Kevin

Hi Matt, Another thought is a bad throttle position sensor. And just for the heck of it, you might want to double check that temp sensor with an ohm meter. If that checks out, 928 International has a guy who can check computers for a very reasonable price. I originally thought my injection brain was the culprit, and sent it to 928 International for rebuilding, but the rebuilder said it tested good. I finally found the ignition brain to be the problem instead. I was able to score one from International for an 85-86, which does seem to work, although it's not 100% perfect. Eventually, I plan to have the original one rebuilt to see if that improves thing. Running all of the tests found in the 9 volume manuals at 28-49 through 28-64 really helped me out in figuring out this problem, and you might find the same.

Since you bought your car less than 15 minutes away from me, are you in NJ or nearby? I might be able to help you out with an ignition module swap to see if that works.

FlyingDog

John, an FPR leak I didn't think of. I don't see why one would suddenly leak, but it should be easy to check.

Kevin, Scott checked the resistance on both temp IIs. I think he said mine was a little out, but the one he put in checked out fine cold. If the 85-86 ignition brain works okay, that should be an easy check and swap. I'm in Maryland and my car is in PA near Altoona.

John Speake

So much fuel in a short time cranking (unless temp is very cold) is unlikely to be a LH problem...

Your Euro S2 will run tolerably well if you swap in a 85/86 US 32v LH unit. I have done this myself on my Euro.