DFWX

The rehabilitation of Tammons ex single turbo 86 1/2 is underway, with a 16V 5.0 hybred Euro being built for this (I may do the 32V project later, but that is outside my budget as this is a total redo as is necessary.
I debated back and forth over flairing the fender - good reasons to do so and not to do so. An ebay of 14 wide, 15 inch wheels - 11 inch in the front (I do NOT want large diameter wheels because while they look good, they also increase relative gear ratios).
So obviously the fenders have to be opened up. I figure to use the 928 Motorsports flairs, though not 100% pleases with how the rear fenders connect. Mostly, it is an economic decision (theirs are the least expensive) and I really like their website (and audio clips) and want to keep my $$ within the early 928 supporters retailers.
Other than adding a rear wing, the OEM front spoiler, and a few vents, I do not plan other body mods, except possibly a short hood riser to allow heat out the back (louvers would not look well on a street 928 in my view).
The wheels have new tires on them and all cost under $1,000. I'll have the gold annodized wheels chrome plated.
The verdict is not 100% in, but I decided NOT to repaint in platinum (ever 5th car and probably 50% of Porsche in this area are platinum) and likely not charcoal grey (though I like it). I really liked my Moss green 928 so probably will change it to that color. A wide flaired, winged, Moss green with notably wide chrome deep dishes on them should look fairly sharp - and rare these days.
It is, though, a tough decision to give up the CUP wheels as those look quite sharp and the tires are still good. They might replace my wife's BBS on her 84 with the S4 body kit, though I think she likes her BBS.
WHAT I WOULD REALLY, REALLY like to find is ANYONE who makes a +2 tire for a 14 inch wide, 15 inch diameter wheel. I suspect that no one makes such a tire, but if you have any idea who does, I'd like to know.
I fully realize that the combination from the side would appear to have notably too small of tire/wheel combinations, but the decision to go this route was due to 1.) wheels in that width that I could actually afford and 2.) I do not want to make the gear ratio even longer than it already is. Big wheels look fabulous, but wheels/tire decision should be dictated by performance considerations - if to be a street performance car.
As I watch the price of late model S4s and even GTs fall further and further, including highly modified ones, I should question the rational of a total restoration/modification of this 86 1/2. But it is the one I have and I prefer the early body style over the S4 and latter.
Anyone have any idea who makes a +2 tire that would fit a 14 inch wide, 15 inch diameter wheel?
Mark

DFWX

If I can pull the project off in the $10 to $12K range, it will be a near miracle as I also want a limited slip differential and the interior is a total (as in TOTAL) redo necessity, but I'll give it a go. The motor will consume well over half of that by the time mounts etc are added and this all leaves little to no $$ for suspension upgrading - though probably that is the singular area most relevant to my style of "Porsche style spirited driving."
Already haves include Tammons former 1986 1/2 with a single turbo system he build, excellent TECIII engine management (though lacking in sensors) and ignition, 72 pound injectors and a parts car (85 32V automatic) - for interior excluding front seats.
The sidemarker lights and side bump strips also have to go. I'd like to bring the exhaust out the back, not the side.
The 86 1/2 project, though well downgraded from the original plans, is finally after a year seeing some movement (meaning spending $$)
Mark O

Champagne

Hey Mark,

I might be able to help with the interior. As I posted in another thread, $4300.00 will get you a complete, new, leather interior with the exception of the seats. Everything from the headliners to the steering wheel. Brand new, French stitched leather, installed on your cores.

Here are the parts that would be included:
A pillars (pair)
dash (includes the glove box door)
pod
center console
Knee shelves (pair, suede interior)
cassette box
door panels (pair)
armrest (pair)
back console
rear seat outboard panels, pair
sun visors (pair front)
sun visors (pair rear)
rear quarters (pair)
headliner (front)
Headliner (back)
rear hatch molding (set of 3)
sunroof panel
Shifter boot
Shifter leather
Steering wheel
Handbrake cover

I have a price list for each individual part in the link below if you prefer not doing everything at once.

Paul

SMTCapeCod

You might want to check the OC or TrackCars page. A machinist here in Mass did some nice work (flares, etc) for some of the cars-- Dave Tassanari. Not sure whether he is still fabricating or not. I'm pretty sure examples are for sale on the trackcars page.

Edit: Opps, thats 928racing.net.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Be careful you do not paint yourself into a corner with such wide 15 inch diameter rims because nearly all the tire companys have modified their molds (to make 16-17-18) and no longer make wide 15 inch tires and if the tires on the rims you bought are more than 3 or 4 years old the are not really useable. All tires have an expiration date and like milk they do go bad ! And I hope you do realize that a 5 liter hybrid euro 16 valve becomes a valve bender interference engine...you simply can not cut the new valve relief pockets deep enough without making the piston too thin even for normally aspirated . Based on what I have seen of major project cars/engine builds I think it is safe to say that they usually take at least twice as long as expected and easily cost TWICE as much as expected. It is much like having a house built and having to decide on all the "upgrades "....Just be very sure that it is what you want because the money you spend on it is spent and very little of it will come back if or when you sell the car.

Jfrahm

You will have to downgrade the 85.5 brakes to fit under 15" wheels, unless the offset or something makes these fit somehow. For tires you could use hand cut racing slicks ($$$ and major rock tossing.)
Kinda nuts IMO.
-Joel.

DFWX

Thanks for the comments. I plan to pirate and wing it on the interior off an 85 parts car I have, and go
with cheap racing seats in the front. Might just use seat covers for now. This is not a restoration project,
but a performance customization revival project.

The diameter probably severely limits street tire selection, but the tires now are new and fresh (not old).
Down the road, I'll likely have to change them but for now that's what I could afford in a very wide tire/
wheel combination.

The folks building the motor think the pistons can be notched safely and they have a 16V 928 racing history that I respect, so I'll take their word on it. Basically, their rehabing one of their race motors. Hope the pistons are not notched too shallow and it will be an interference motor - but then so is a 32V.

While I would take a "hit" on resale, it would not be more than the many thousands of dollars more this
project would cost rebuilding the 32V in the parts car. There are few modifications that can be made
to a 928 or even major restoration projects that can recover their costs in terms of resale value. If this
project is completed, it will be a car I keep the rest of my life. And it will be the last such project.

I used to enjoy working on cars, but now such things are chores. However, the greatest savings I
can make are in labor and in scrounging. For example, I can have the T4 turbo in it rebuilt for
$100, buy a used GT42 turbo and have it rebuilt for $400, or buy a new GT42 turbocharger
for $1700 or more. The only real choices I have are between the $100 and $400 options.

The original project goal was upon rebuilding the 32V and very costly upgrades and mods. I even had
most the major components obtained, from treated new pistons, an entire replacement crank/rods/piston set, the motor in a parts car, supercharger, water to air intercooler. over 1,000 square feet of carbon fiber cloth and much, much more. But when I put a reality-pencil to it, I figured still another $30,000 and 3 years later I'd still just have a car project in the garage - because of time factors.

My view on the 16V choice (which is already what is in it now) is that I could have a fresh 16V Euro for
less than a rebuild on the 32V and everything is set up now for 16V - plus if I blow the 16V I could fall
back on a used 4.5 (low compression not as much lose on a turbo car) and still have a running car - where
if I lost the 32V it would be so costly and disheartening I'd likely throw in the towel. I do not want a motor for which I drive in fear of the motor failing for the cost of replacement - which is what I would
have with a built up 32V. I could not afford a $10,000 engine failure. Others can, I can not.

Because someone else is doing the motor, the motor end of the project is little more than swapping motors, rebuilding/replacing the turbocharger and reprogramming the TECIII engine management. Done. Install the new center clutch plate and adjust it out, and the drivetrain is done - except for the wish for a limited slip differential.

Remaining then is upgrading the suspension a bit, a total body make-over (but no body damage) and pulling the interior of one and putting in the other. But I also realize all that, for me, is probably
500 hours of work at best.

The decision to go forward almost derailed in a near purchase of a 468 CID big block and tricked out
'68 Camero. $12,000 and done. But that is a totally different type of car, so instead the decision made
to put the $12K into the 86 1/2 we already have plus all the extras we have for it.

If I were to stick with the stock body and the Cup wheels, it would have saved $3.5K on the project,
but would lack uniqueness.

I never approach a car project considering re-sale as you never recover parts costs, let alone anything for
time and labor. I'll have a bit over $20 K in a car that maybe could bring $7k for the right buyer. But, then
a new Ford would cost that much or more and have no more resale value 4 years later too. Performance
is not rational, it is a fixation based in ones own egomania.

This project is a down-tuning where $$$ and putting it all together are priimary considerations.
What would new, wide Z tires on new, wide Porsche fitting wheels cost me? $3K? The 15 inchers, for
now, allow $2k for somewhere else - like body and paint. The reason I do not drive it now is because it
looks like trash inside and out - though is extremely fast on it's 4.5 and turbo setup.

I also have skill limitations - why someone else is building a motor for me. Pretty much anything mechanic
that is not simple wrench work I hope for others to do.

I am hoping to reach a driveable conclusion within 6 months, with likely compromises at that (such as putting off a limited slip differential.) If it takes more than a year, then its 5 years or never.

I did a fair number of total car redos/restorations/modications in the past, and completed maybe
25% of them. Of those finished and even those not, nearly all had particular "curb appeal" due to
attractive and unique appearance.

It also is a bit location relevant. If still in the city, I would not bother with this. But in the country,
Porsche handling is usable. And, for this area, a Porsche 928 (particularly a customized one) is more
exotic and stunning than would be a Ferrari P40 driving through Dallas would be. It will be the fastest,
sharpest and most exotic car in the County by far.

I have a good idea what I'm up against and it is a bit scary as I am also slowing down as the years go by. The motive is simple, I want the end result, I want that 928.

But I have to get out of this chair to get something done, no? And it is a very comfortable and easy chair.

I truly appreciate any and all comments. Great food for thought and it is Rennlist that is my inspiration!

Mark

DFWX

Agh, I have to DOWNSIZE brakes??!!! I am not sure I am willing to do that. Are you SURE?
Mark O

Jim bailey - 928 International

It is highly likely that the larger diameter of the rotor/caliper will not fit under a 15 inch rim...

Tass 928

Yep, I'm still here.. this is a pic of my rear flare but they are rivet-on race car type quality....not show-car stuff. BTW; rim is 11.5" with a 1" spacer.
There are other flares that Stan Shaw is marketing for me through the 928racing.net site. Drop me a note if I can be of some help

bcdavis

This is where you can get all kinds of 15" tires and wheels...

http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.html

Hahaha!

tommytomaso

first, i know the look your going for and i say..WAy Cool!!!!,, but forget the 15s and go 16s you can get beter sizing.. heck 275s on 16s no to shabby. As for the flares DEVEK was listing on thier old site that they were going to produce front and rear weld on flares drop them a line.
I have a 79 parts car in the yard iv been concidiering for a''what could be" project
My idea was to make it into a 928 turned 906 gulf racer,or is it 916? (blue with orange stripe and white number circles ) id black out the pop ups and the ressed headlight sections use Jaqamond wide kit for the flares but custom the front to look more like the 906. I would love to have 2 sets of 3'' DTM style exhaust tips coming out were the bumperet are but that would take alot of ''going around things, so would just do one side with duel 3'' DTM tips exiting beside the bumperet. I would use 16'' wheels blacked out and some real fat meats... interior i would gut and smooth everthing out (streamline) i would use black leather with orange stitching and lotsa aluminum.
As for the motor a turbo would be fitting, but 360 to 400 wheel hp would be perfect, but the sound would be most important..BAWWWWWWWAAaaaaaaaWWWWWAaaaaaaaaaaa..
Well thats My Dream!!!

DFWX

Can you tell me more about Stan's fender flairs?
I agree that bring the exhaust out at the rear "bumpettes' truly is ideal, and if you look at the transmission mount it is literally shaped to allow dual exhaust out the rear. But as that is where the rear bumpers attach, basically it would take cutting out the back bit of the frame to have the exhaust there. Ideal appearance, tough to do.
Mark O

DFWX

These comments are convincing me to hang on to the 16 inch CUPS.
The tires available for 15 inch wheels with 14 inch width are drag racing tires - though some are street legal. Sticky, but questionable in terms of cornering. They are very tall tires - meaning no diameter saved.
Possibly I will end up with two sets of wheel/tire combinations. One for regular driving and another for performance/show. I suspect that is what I have now, as the tires on the CUPS are excellent. The CUPS would require spacers if I do flare the fenders.
Mark O

Tass 928

[QUOTE=DFWX]Can you tell me more about Stan's fender flairs?

The flares on my car are fairly mild...The flares I made to sell are somewhat wider and will cover a much wider wheel/tire. There are a bunch of them out there...maybe someone can post a picture for you.