Marine Blue

I've recently began searching for a nice shark for weekend/sunny weather driving and I need some assistance to make sure I'm getting the right car.

I've read through the extensive archives and I'm astounded how much has been posted. I'm even more impressed with some of the dedicated websites a few owners have created for the benefit of everyone else. I hope I can do the same one day.

I came upon a car in NorCal which I am seriously interested in. It's an 87 S4, 5spd with approximately 47 - 57k miles on it.......more on this later.

Car's exterior condition: Excellent based upon pics sent by the owner. Some minor chips in the front and the usual blasting on the front bumper but definitely would place it in very good condition. I'm not sure if the entire car has been resprayed but if it has it surely has been done properly as I can't see any overspray in the bay, on any molding, trim etc and everything matches. The panels are all lined up and gaps are even everywhere you look.

Interior: condition is excellent as well considering age and mileage. The drivers seat bolster has a very small tear it appears or maybe a deep scuff, hard to say for sure. Otherwise the leather doesn't look faded and the patina is as expected for the mileage. The carpeting looks good as does the dash and doors.

Engine bay is clean, not concours by any means but everything appears to be in place and correct. The fenders do have the serial number stickers and the hood insulation looks good. Overall nothing surprising.

Mechanicals: The previous owner had the car service and replaced the water pump, timing belt, V-Belt, caps, rotosr, Wires, Plugs a few thousand miles ago. In the past 5 years the car has had A/C hoses, accumulator and a few other associated items replaced. It has a Deviks radiator (installed in 2000 I believe) by one of the previous owners. A recent PPI found it probably needs a new steering rack (it's sweating) and a new tie rod. Also the door checks aren't holding the door in the full open position so these need to be addressed. Brakes aren't too old and the tires (SO2's) look pretty good as well. Shocks were replaced a few years back with Koni Adjustables!

Anyways the major problems that I've dug up are the mileage discrepancy although the owner has the book which shows the mileage when the odometer was changed and all records thereafter match up. I'm not sure how easy these cars are to change odometers but with service records looking accurate otherwise and the condition of the car being what it is does this really matter?

Owner is asking $19900.00 for it and is willling to negotiate due to the steering rack and other mechanical issues.

I'd love to get everyone's opinion on this before I fly out to see the car. I'm in Maine so this will be a hike and I will also need to consider cost to ship the car back.

Here's a pic of the outside and inside......

Intrinsicate

If you post the VIN, I can run a Carfax for you. Once the odometer has been changed, the vehicle's value will suffer, even with supporting records, because no one can tell for sure how long it was driven with the odo inoperative - 5 miles, or 5,000 miles, or more? The asking price seems ambitious for a TMU(total miles unknown) car with mechancial and cosmetic issues.

Marine Blue

Michael,

Thank you for the offer! Actually I ran the carfax already, it's always a starting point for me before I start seriously inquiring further. Here's a copy of it:

Date:
Mileage Reading:
Source:
General Comments:


06/24/1994 21,737 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Mill Valley, CA
Odometer reading reported for title
or registration
NOT ACTUAL MILEAGE TITLE ISSUED

CARFAX AdvisorTM
A NAM title is issued when the owner discloses mileage fraud or a broken odometer to a DMV. The actual mileage of this vehicle is unknown.

Mileage reported after this reading is potentially unreliable.


07/06/1994 California
Inspection Station
San Francisco, CA
Passed emissions inspection


09/30/1994 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
NOT ACTUAL MILEAGE TITLE ISSUED


06/29/1999 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Mill Valley, CA
NOT ACTUAL MILEAGE TITLE ISSUED


07/23/2000 Vehicle Repair Center
San Rafael, CA
Vehicle serviced


07/23/2000 27,622 California
Inspection Station
San Rafael, CA
Passed emissions inspection


07/05/2002 Vehicle Repair Center
San Rafael, CA
Vehicle serviced


07/05/2002 27,830 California
Inspection Station
San Rafael, CA
Passed emissions inspection


05/29/2003 27,989 Vehicle Repair Center
San Rafael, CA
Vehicle serviced


05/29/2003 California
Inspection Station
San Rafael, CA
Passed emissions inspection


03/01/2004 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Oakland, CA
Title issued or updated
New owner reported


03/04/2004 28,416 California
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection


06/13/2005 31,249 California
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection

Anyways the last owner has only had the car for 6 months and wants to sell and invest the money.

I'm having serious difficulty trying to determine just what is the right price for these cars. They seem to vary quite substantially from year to year and mileage. Judging by what I've seen I'd put it's condition as very good compared to others but l'm no expert nor do I have a good handle on what the vast majority of cars look like.

Just for everyone's reference, I'm searching for a car in excellent condition, lower miles, 5spd and I'm willing to spend up to $22K for the right car. I want to restore the car to its original condition and show it eventually, obvsiously need to start with a good base for this. Oh and I won't buy any car without having my own PPI done first.

ErnestSw

Looks and sounds like a nice car. It is overpriced. I'd say $15,000.00 at MOST.

Marine Blue

Here are a few more shots including the engine, seat etc. Anyone see anything that stands out or doesn't look right?

Regarding price, I know he's already turned down $16K.

I'm thinking $17,750.00 but if it makes more sense to pass for a better car I'd certainly consider it.

ErnestSw

Very nice, but price-wise your budget is in GT territory. An 87 with odometer problems is still an 87 with odometer problems no matter how nice. The "low mileage" only counts if it's documentable.
Having said all that, if you really like the car go for it.

greg928GTS

I'd keep looking.

IcemanG17

The hood is not closing 100% correctly...but honestly....hardly any do!!!! This one is very close though!!! It also looks like there is no mounting holes for the front license plate...so its probably a replacement bumper or has been repainted and filled in....the VIN sticker on the bumper will tell all! I posted the craigslist add earlier this week...is that how you found it? I would be willing to take a look at it for you, along with Rich S to give it a good in person once over, before you fly out to look at it.....Rich, Gerry & I did the same for Ed Hughes who was considering a 90S4 with 44K mile that was also local to our area...Ed ended up passing on that car, but got a very nice 91S4 recently

Marine Blue

Brian,

I actually found the car on Craigslist last Monday hadn't realized you had posted it as well. I have been gathering info from the seller since then. You're about 20 minutes from the cars location (normal speeds he he ) I would truly appreciate a set of eyes that can look, and maybe even drive the car to see if it's as described. I'm even willing to cover your expenses to and from

I've done a few searches trying to get a better handle on price and I'm thinking the price may be a little high but I'm also learning that it is extremely difficult to find a 5spd with lower miles in good condition with a reasonable price. Does anyone have any suggestions where else I should be looking? I've been looking at Autotrader, Porsche-Classifieds, Cars.com, Rennlist of course and various high end dealers. The high end dealers tend to be ridiculously overpriced unfortunately.....

ErnestSw

Ebay

IcemanG17

I drove the car today.....a 5 speed S4 is nice! Different than what I was used to....but fun. The car is Marine Blue Metalic (35V) with champagne interior.....a very striking color combo & it is in very good conditon with records going back to day one!!! Ashfin is getting a very nice 928....I'm just sad it is leaving the area :>(

Richard S

Checked it out today with Brian and Gerry. Looks good. May have had some paint work, I could see a vertical line on the passenger door, forward of the mirror. Small bubble in paint on rear passenger quarterpanel under window. Front fenders have the lip. (Later replacement fenders do not have lip) Rear wing is original flip up style that has been sanded down and painted black. At first we thought it was an aftermarket fibreglass replacement, until we looked closer. Overall a nice example. Better than the white 90 we looked at for Ed. Very quiet exhaust, engine sounded smooth. Tires in good shape, didn't notice any uneven wear. Front discs are cast hole rotors. I didn't give it a hardcore look, (not enough time, cloudy cold and rainy) but seems nice.

Rich

Mrmerlin

Hi from the sounds of the Rennlisters PPI the car looks and sounds nice 17500 might be a lil hi but you could also offer him 16,000 and see if he will reconsider his price, you can always offer more , but I am willing to bet if you showed up with 15,500 cash he may just toss you the keys, My car has cost me about 18,000 and i am almst finished , I got it for about 8500. This one looks to be in way better condition to start with, good luck on your search, the speedo can be fixed if you do for abot 24.00 it needs a new gear, if you do the work it will take about 4 hours to fix it, a shop might charge about 375.00 , Stan

Mrmerlin

Hi oops i forgot to add it looks like the fuel lines are original they need to be replaced there are 4 of them , as well as a new timing belt for your piece of mind, these could be bargaining chips.
You can do the fuel lines and it will take about 3 hrs to R N R the lines also check the Y pipe connector under the right front fender well, and it looks like the front fenders are original as the vin stickers are where they should be , the vin sticker for the front bumpercover is in one of the air intake slots probably on one side or the other, if it is original and unpainted you will find it, Stan

Marine Blue

Took the plunge!!! The transaction is to be completed tomorrow, I really just needed another set of eyes on the car to make sure it was being represented correctly.

Brian, Rich I owe you one! Should you ever need anything that I can help with let me know. Hope one day we all meet up at a show/event...I'll provide the beverages of choice.

Mrmerlin,

I decided not to play around with the price as he had another serious buyer and after seeing pictures of many other cars I felt pretty confident about it's condition. Nice smooth transaction so far. The odometer was actually replaced by Porsche under warranty when the car had 15k miles (lcd problem?), it is documented in the books. All the miles there after are shown on the records which gave me peace of mind. I think the overall condition really does represent the 47k miles being advertised. All maintenance has already been done including the timing belt, v belts, caps/rotors, A/C hoses, wires, radiator, shocks, oil, coolant, power steering hoses and a few other items.

I plan on having the steering rack and tie rods changed as well as the drivers seat leather. I'll also baseline the car with new oil, plugs and air filters. I'll definitely check out the fuel lines, where exactly are they located and is it a DIY?

Everyone thanks again for all your assistance, really helps to have experienced eyes looking at the car. As the 500E guys say, I have a permagrin on my face, can't wait to get my shark!!!