"S3"
03-13-2006, 04:24 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Vilhuer
- ROW/US '78-82 4.5L 16V are all plain 928 only
- ROW '80-83 4.7L 16V is 928 S without 1
- US '83-84 4.7L 16V is because factory called it 928 S
- ROW '84-86 4.7L 16V is 928 S because factory called it 928 S
- UK '84-86 4.7L 16V is S2 because UK importer and possibly factory also called it 928 S2
- US '85-86 5.0L 32V is S because factory called it 928 S
- ROW '86 5.0L 32V is S because factory called it 928 S
- '87-91 5.0L 32V is S4 because factory called them 928 S4 everywhere
- '89.5-91 5.0L GT is 928 GT...
Those are only official names I know of. Everyting else is more or less unofficial. S3 is most common unofficial model name, especially in here. For future reference I'd like to submit these:
I would call US '85-early '86 as S3 and US '86½ as S3.5 simply because S3 is already used with them.
- US '85-86.0 32V is 928 S3
- US '86.5 32V is 928 S3.5
All '86 model year Euros have later S4 style suspension and brakes. '86½ (from VIN 1000 forward) is US model thing.
- ROW '86 16V is then 928 S2.25
If 310hp Euro is S2 what is Euro '86 S 32V with S4 suspension etc? It could then be also 928 S3.5 like US '86.5 as it has same engine (except pistons) and brakes.
- ROW '86 32V is 928 S3.4 simply because it came several months before US S3.5. Other choice is to call it 928 S2.5 but that doesn't really describe what it is.
- ROW '80-83 4.7L 16V is 928 S without 1
- US '83-84 4.7L 16V is because factory called it 928 S
- ROW '84-86 4.7L 16V is 928 S because factory called it 928 S
- UK '84-86 4.7L 16V is S2 because UK importer and possibly factory also called it 928 S2
- US '85-86 5.0L 32V is S because factory called it 928 S
- ROW '86 5.0L 32V is S because factory called it 928 S
- '87-91 5.0L 32V is S4 because factory called them 928 S4 everywhere
- '89.5-91 5.0L GT is 928 GT...
Those are only official names I know of. Everyting else is more or less unofficial. S3 is most common unofficial model name, especially in here. For future reference I'd like to submit these:
I would call US '85-early '86 as S3 and US '86½ as S3.5 simply because S3 is already used with them.
- US '85-86.0 32V is 928 S3
- US '86.5 32V is 928 S3.5
All '86 model year Euros have later S4 style suspension and brakes. '86½ (from VIN 1000 forward) is US model thing.
- ROW '86 16V is then 928 S2.25
If 310hp Euro is S2 what is Euro '86 S 32V with S4 suspension etc? It could then be also 928 S3.5 like US '86.5 as it has same engine (except pistons) and brakes.
- ROW '86 32V is 928 S3.4 simply because it came several months before US S3.5. Other choice is to call it 928 S2.5 but that doesn't really describe what it is.
Jon
03-13-2006, 04:32 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by FlyingDog
Actually all of the 85-86 US cars have the features of an S3 
Borg Warner synchros in the manual trannies and M28/43/44 engines. The 86.5 US cars added a few features of all 86 Euro S2 and S3 cars. An 86.5 is just an 86 Euro S3 with some minor internal engine differences and DOT lighting.
Borg Warner synchros in the manual trannies and M28/43/44 engines. The 86.5 US cars added a few features of all 86 Euro S2 and S3 cars. An 86.5 is just an 86 Euro S3 with some minor internal engine differences and DOT lighting.
03-13-2006, 04:34 PM
#18
Captain Obvious
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Originally Posted by jeff jackson
perhaps your right Iceman...but the 85-early 86 cars (US Spec), have the 32V engine @288HP...but none of the "upgrades" of the real "S3" model...which is the 86.5. It has numerous (if not ALL) the upgrades of the 87 S4...with the old body style. It also of course doesn't have the 316 HP "flappy" 32 valve engine in its 1st iteration...Rather...its the "last" iteration...of the "classic" 928 design. The real "S3" model. the 85-early 86 cars, were essentially the same car, but less the S4 upgrades
included on the 86.5 (which are everything but the "flappy" 316HP engine, and the "revamped" front and rear body panels and lighting...
included on the 86.5 (which are everything but the "flappy" 316HP engine, and the "revamped" front and rear body panels and lighting...
Since the average life of each generation of the S was around 2 years, the S3 would start with the 85 32V and end with the last 86.5 32V. The 86.5 was only a mild upgrade so it could be called the S3.5!
03-13-2006, 04:36 PM
#19
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The 81 (late 80?) 'Competition Group' included:
Airdam, brake cooling ducting
Spoiler
Bilstein shocks
Manual sport seats
3-spoke steering wheel
Flat 16" wheels
Auto or Manual
It did not include:
S-brakes
LSD (unless ordered specifically)
Airdam, brake cooling ducting
Spoiler
Bilstein shocks
Manual sport seats
3-spoke steering wheel
Flat 16" wheels
Auto or Manual
It did not include:
S-brakes
LSD (unless ordered specifically)
03-13-2006, 04:45 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by jeff jackson
Flying Dog...are you saying that US Spec 85, and early 86 model cars... have S4 brakes, and front and rear suspension parts of the S4,...(like the US Spec 86.5 does) ??? WRONG ...
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
Actually all of the 85-86 US cars have the features of an S3 Borg Warner synchros in the manual trannies and M28/43/44 engines. The 86.5 US cars added a few features of all 86 Euro S2 and S3 cars. An 86.5 is just an 86 Euro S3 with some minor internal engine differences and DOT lighting.
03-13-2006, 09:46 PM
#22
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I wonder how many U.S Spec 86.5's (or 928 S 3.5) are left out there in good condition? I think when I went to the 928 registry I only saw 33 of them in the 928 reigstry. It must be a rare 928 like some of the other models.
03-13-2006, 10:09 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Warren928
I wonder how many U.S Spec 86.5's (or 928 S 3.5) are left out there in good condition? I think when I went to the 928 registry I only saw 33 of them in the 928 reigstry. It must be a rare 928 like some of the other models.
Warren I have been cataloging all the '86s I find and I have over 150 86.5s. They just haven't made their way to the registry yet. I don't want to overload Chuck with to many entries.
03-13-2006, 11:16 PM
#24
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Shane,
Thanks- That still sounds like a pretty low number of S 3.5's considering there were more than a few on the registry that were partially wrecked but still listed as "in existence". So maybe there are 175 of them, and maybe that number is more but that is starting to sound like a rare amount of them. Okay, maybe not a rare body style or engine but it has a combination of factory features that is rare in a single year. I still would much rather have a GT or GTS.
Thanks- That still sounds like a pretty low number of S 3.5's considering there were more than a few on the registry that were partially wrecked but still listed as "in existence". So maybe there are 175 of them, and maybe that number is more but that is starting to sound like a rare amount of them. Okay, maybe not a rare body style or engine but it has a combination of factory features that is rare in a single year. I still would much rather have a GT or GTS.
03-14-2006, 01:41 AM
#25
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Going by 928 Specialists production numbers, there were 1780 86.5 sold (2780-1000). That's more than were sold each year before 80 or after 87, and more than the total sold after 89. I wouldn't consider that very rare for a 928.
03-14-2006, 06:51 AM
#26
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According to Jörg Austen, last '86 US VIN was 3070. There are several cars in Chuck's registry with larger VIN than 2780 or 2840 if 60 largely unused prototype VIN's are counted in. What all this means is that yearly sales numbers are a mess. But anyway, there are many more 86.5 than 86.0. 2071 vs. 939 in fact so '86 MY car is more than twice as likely to be S3.5 than just S3.
03-14-2006, 07:02 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Jon B.
There was also an option on the regular old '81 928 before the "S" model that was called the "Competition Package".
03-14-2006, 10:15 AM
#28
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Matt and Erkka,
Thanks for the reply. So does that mean that all the vin numbers for 86.5 were US designated cars? I thought they used to skip every two or three VIN's and send the others to other parts of the world for that part of the year. Maybe that was done on certain years, like on the GTS. I could have sworn someone told us about the GTS's going to the US skipped every 3 VIN spots. At any rate, your right about them not being rare but instead quite popular.
And maybe since only 200 of them can be found, its the "crasher's choice for 928's". Naturally the most popular model will have the most casualties because 1) there are more of them on the road and 2) Because the price was good on a used one due to less demand, people of lesser financial means are buying this 928, using and abusing them more, which ends in they're sent to Junkyard at some point.
Thanks for the reply. So does that mean that all the vin numbers for 86.5 were US designated cars? I thought they used to skip every two or three VIN's and send the others to other parts of the world for that part of the year. Maybe that was done on certain years, like on the GTS. I could have sworn someone told us about the GTS's going to the US skipped every 3 VIN spots. At any rate, your right about them not being rare but instead quite popular.
And maybe since only 200 of them can be found, its the "crasher's choice for 928's". Naturally the most popular model will have the most casualties because 1) there are more of them on the road and 2) Because the price was good on a used one due to less demand, people of lesser financial means are buying this 928, using and abusing them more, which ends in they're sent to Junkyard at some point.
03-14-2006, 10:29 AM
#29
Yeah.. IMO,you think about it, if they share the same engine & body style, I'd say the 86.5 is similar enough to have the same designation with the US 85-86's, whether official or not.
03-14-2006, 11:29 AM
#30
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For each and every model year from '78 to '95 (except MY '92) 928 was made with two different VIN sequences, ROW and USA. US sequence should always have Canadian cars in it also. MY '93 US car use two separate sequences. One for option 718 cars which really are '92 models in sense that they probably use '92 MY GTS pistons in engine for example. Other sequence for true '93 MY was done without option 718 and with later style '93-95 GTS pistons.
On each year there will be two cars which have exact same last four digits at VIN, one ROW and one US. That is true up to number where one or the other is highest one produced for that particular year and market. In '86 for example US VIN's use range 0061...3010 and ROW cars have 0061...1971. All numbers in between these extremes should have been assigned to a car. In USA there are 0061...1971 VIN cars which have counterpart in somewhere overseas. We would really need to include 13th digit of the VIN for these to make them unique, 60061...63010 for US and 40061...41971 for ROW.
For some years like '87 Japan had their own set of numbers which is technically part of ROW sequence as it's 13th digit is same (4) as other ROW's. For others like '78 they are part of US series with their own block set aside high up above highest US VIN.
While VIN's last four numbers are same for two different cars they probably came out from production line months apart because of how many were made for each market during production year. Speed how many were made for each markets each day could have also varied during production and made time difference even larger.
On each year there will be two cars which have exact same last four digits at VIN, one ROW and one US. That is true up to number where one or the other is highest one produced for that particular year and market. In '86 for example US VIN's use range 0061...3010 and ROW cars have 0061...1971. All numbers in between these extremes should have been assigned to a car. In USA there are 0061...1971 VIN cars which have counterpart in somewhere overseas. We would really need to include 13th digit of the VIN for these to make them unique, 60061...63010 for US and 40061...41971 for ROW.
For some years like '87 Japan had their own set of numbers which is technically part of ROW sequence as it's 13th digit is same (4) as other ROW's. For others like '78 they are part of US series with their own block set aside high up above highest US VIN.
While VIN's last four numbers are same for two different cars they probably came out from production line months apart because of how many were made for each market during production year. Speed how many were made for each markets each day could have also varied during production and made time difference even larger.