Porken,

Thanks for the website location - I will browse through it.

Anything special I need to do the crank seal?

Thanks for all the help,
Tom928
MY '81 928 Auto Indian Red/Black 91K
MY '84 928S Auto Kiln Red/Tan 112K

 

Check for wear on the timing belt gears. Cupping, shiny aluminum or sharp edges are grounds for replacement.

You may need a puller the first time removing the crank gear. Use anti-sieze or grease/90W oil when reinstalling to make it easier next time.

The block has a cast notch in it so you can lever out the seal.

More local folks: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/PacNW928/

 

Off Topic!
Porken, wanted to ask for long time, you have no timing covers on the t-belt on your car at all. Do you drive it daily? Doesn't it get dirty?
I am thinking about not installing mine, but am kind of scared: what if a small stone get in between of t-belt and a gear???

Thanks,

Klim

 

Yes, he runs it like that.

 

16V tb etc is easy - follow Pirtle, but ignore the 45 degree stuff. RHS cam will not line up well as Porken says - book says rotate anti-clock until it fits belt, as does Wally. Get the right tools - flywheel lock, 27mm socket for front bolt. I left my flywheel lock in place from start until new belt was fitted and ready to do check rotations. All the pirtle stuff re water pump bolts (new), clean threads etc applies. Worst part is getting small circlips off/on the pins holding bottom guide under crank. Suggest you drain pan, as you will be removing oil feed pipe from filler to get at everything properly. I made a front seal fitting tool out of plastic plumbing piping. Make sure you replace all the bits around the tensioner (plastic bushings, gasket, boot etc).
jp 83 Euro S AT 50K

 

Get new (stainless) bolts when removing the water pump/thermostat housing.
...

Klim,

With the pan installed, it's difficult for anything to get up into the belt path. I have had the covers off for about three years, and have had no problems.

With the covers off, I am able to check the belt tension at will, spot any belt wander problems and quickly tell where leaks are coming from. Any maintenance takes half as long (water pump swap in 4 hours).

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

So looks like I will be doing the Timing Belt, Water Pump, Tensioner rebuild and Front Crank seal. The gears look good, some have shinny areas, but no nicks or scratches (I can't see the crank gear yet). I have noticed the RHS cam timing mark is one tooth off from being aligned. Sounds like it should be that way so I will make sure it goes back togther the same way.

I also have been considering making a cover plate for the oil filler tube (oil is already drained) to keep crud I need to scrape off everything from getting into the oil pan.
I was considering the Timing Belt kit from 928 Specialists for the parts as it has everything from the flywheel lock and tensioner tool to the little parts for the tensioner and WP bolt set.

I'll order parts and while I am waiting I can try and figure out why when I turn on the ignition the car just beeps at me??
Have dash lights, no sensor lights except low voltage. Tried charging the battery for 6 hours same thing. Does th alarm need somehing when the battery is reconnected?

Thanks again for everyones help,
Tom928
MY '81 928 Auto Indian Red/Black 91K
MY '84 928S Auto Kiln Red/Tan 112K

P.S. Anyone know where I could pick up a 30 gallon drum real reasonable to build a parts cleaner. I have the stainless steel sink and the pump. Reasonable is (cough) free (cough).

 

One tooth is 7.5 (cam) degrees! Try it on the correct mark first, and see how it lines up with the new water pump.

 

Tom,

How did the Timing Belt change go? I am getting ready to do one on my 1980 4.5L 16v motor. Anything to look for? What tool did you use to check your belt tension?

Thanks,

 

I just got my TB/WP service completed on Saturday. All went good and it started on the first try!!! I haven’t driven it yet as I have 2 leaks after initial startup. One is a pretty steady drip at the radiator drain plug (I think it needs a new one) and the other is a real slow drip at the back of the power steering pump (looks like a seal).

I used the aftermarket belt tension tool (the Kempf tool) I purchased from 928 Specialists - more about this later.

Here are some things to watch, tools I needed and other thoughts.

I did not remove the radiator, but drained it, removed the hoses but left the oil lines connected. This wasn’t bad, and there was plenty of room to work without hitting the fins. I did place cardboard over the inside and taped it to the top and bottom to prevent damage. I did not remove the thermostat cover and I left the PS pump hoses connected and hung it from the bar with a bungee cord because I removed the strut that holds the pump. I left the air pump and compressor in place (loosened them) along with the hoses to them. I did not remove the engine wiring harness as indicated on the instructions (I used John Pirtle’s – thank you John) and I did not remove the distributor. I did remove the wires (number them) from the cap to clean the cap and rotor. I also removed the alternator to gain access to the PS pump and oil filter.

I removed everything else on the front of the engine down to the bare block. I placed red marks on the front of the cam gears BEFORE removing the belt. The cams turn when you remove the belt and the red marks allow you to see how much it turns and keep track. I then cleaned every part (I got carried away with my new parts cleaner) and the face of the block until only aluminum was showing. Then I inspected all the parts for wear and damage. Here is what I found:

Timing Belt – Mine was slightly frayed on the edges. Since I actually started out replacing the WP, I soon decided to do the complete TB/WP package, and then discovered I needed a few more things.

Water Pump – Leaking, the main reason I undertook this project. I replaced it and all the bolts; then used non-hardening gasket sealer with anti-seize on all the bolts. Watch when taking you water pump bolts off. They can break off in the block, mine all came out nicely with steady even pressure. Watch were the bolts come out and leave one open for one of the middle cam cover bolts 

Timing belt gears – I replaced my crank gear and my right cam gear as they were badly worn (sharp edges that appeared curved?). My left cam gear looked almost new (no shiny spots at all) and the oil pump gear had just 3 places it was starting to wear. Speaking of the oil pump gear – you will need a strap wrench to hold the gear to remove and install the bolt.

Idler arm shoulder bolt – This bolt attaches the idler arm assembly to the water pump. Mine twisted off with the first light pressure I applied leaving the rest of the bolt in the WP housing. I tried vise grips with Liquid wrench and PB Blaster - it would not come lose. I replaced this bolt and the bushings.

Lower roller assembly bearing - Mine was beginning to seize and I could barely turn it by hand. Instead of buying a complete lower roller assembly (~$130), 928 international has the bearing for about $20. If you replace yours, after pressing this assembly together; check the clearance between the outer bearing jacket (pressed on over the outer bearing surface) and the assembly casting and to the front crank washer.

Crank washers – I replaced both crank washers because I couldn’t get the puller on the crank gear only and had to use the washer to pull the gear out enough to get the hooks on the gear. This ruined the back crank washer and since the washer rotates after being installed, when it is removed, it creates a new keyway in the washer for you!

Front crank seal – Even though I didn’t see any external evidence of the seal deteriorating I replaced it anyway (a WYAIT suggested by one of the forum members). It was hard to get a straight screwdriver in so I took a straight blade and bent a 90 deg in it about 1” from the tip. I then tapped it into the seal enough to get a bite but not enough to go through and pried it out. To install I made a tool of 3.5” O.D black ABS plastic pipe 4.25” long glued into a 3.5” I.D. end cap with a hole drilled for the crank bolt. The 3.5” plastic is just about 1/16 of an inch BIGGER around than the seal which allows you to press the seal into the block with even pressure and it brings the seal ALMOST flush (1/32) with the block. I tapped it flush with a piece of hardwood.

Oil level sensor rubber boot – Mine disintegrated into my hand when I removed it. This part was almost impossible to find. I found a replacement using a 944 part. Part number is: 113.927.249.

Rebuilding the Tensioner – Mine had no boot by the time I got it off the engine. I replaced the boot, clamp and the internal o-ring after cleaning everything. One thing I found is that the top bolt on the tension (the one that holds the middle cam cover on is stripped out and the bolt just turns. I believe this is the one that is supposed to have Loctite on it. Bummer…

Oil dipstick and filler holes – after removing the dipstick and oil fill tube there will be open holes in the oil pan. I made a cover for the oil fill tube from ¼ hard plastic and used the old gasket and bolted it in place until assembly. For the dipstick, I found a fitting that screwed in that had the metal tub cutoff and pinched together.


INSTALLING THE BELT:
I had to have the assistance of a second person to install the belt. I could not hold the belt at the crank sprocket (to keep it from slipping) and guide the belt around the gears to pre-load it. I had to have someone hold the belt at the crank as I pre-loaded around the gears and WP then onto the right cam gear. The other gotcha here is that the cams move once you remove the belt – not by much but enough that you will need two hands at the right cam gear. One to put the belt on and another to hold the wrench that is keeping the cam gear in line with the mark and belt tooth. Once the belt is on the right cam gear there is considerable tension from the valve springs. The second person will need to hold the crank gear with one hand and the right can gear with the other while you attached the idler arm to the water pump and then tighten the tensioner bolt enough to take up the slack.
NOTE: On the 16V, the idler arm can not go on until the belt is on, which helps prevent the belt from slipping at the crank gear.
BTW – I understand the belt needs to go on so you can read the lettering directly (not backwards).

ALIGNING THE TIMING MARKS - The timing notch/mark on the right side (pass side) DID NOT LINE UP WITH THE POINTER. With crank at 0TC and left cam gear notch dead on the pointer; the right cam gear notch was either ½ tooth to one side or another of the pointer. I was told by several people that this would be the case.
NOTE: On the 16V engines there are no 45 deg. timing marks (at least mine had none and I was told to ignore that on the 16V engine) and the cams do jump back to a rest position when you remove the belt.

ADJUSTING THE BELT TENSION - I set the tension on the belt in the specified place ½ the distance between the right cam gear and the idler main roller. With flywheel lock removed; I rotated the engine by hand 2 turns and aligned 0TC again and rechecked the tension. Then after initial startup, I rechecked the tension and it is within the window on the tool.

NOTE ON THE TENSION TOOL: I noticed on my tool that the metal tab that the spring is connected to is bent. I talked with another 928’r in WA a few weeks ago and he looked at his and it is bent in the same place; however, not as much a mine. Is this normal???? I figure this is how the tool is calibrated and depending on the spring the tool will have different angles; HOWEVER, how can I check to see if my tool is measuring correctly???

I left the top cam covers off for initial start-up so I could watch the tracking of the belt. The belt tracks right in the middle of the cam gears; however, between the WP wheel and the left cam gear the belt vibrates back and forth about ¼ of an inch or so. I am not sure if this is normal or I have a problem with my tensioning tool and the belt tension is set too low!! If I can get a good picture of this I will post it for feedback.

I switched the engine to synthetic oil (Mobil-1 15W-50) and put in DEX-COOL antifreeze.

Other tools:
27MM socket, a good breaker bar and 4’ cheater – for getting the crank bolt off and turning the engine.
Torque wrench up to 250ft lbs - putting crank bolt ON. I loaned one from a local auto store (mine stops at 150).
Don’t forget your handy dandy flywheel lock – your not going anywhere past the crank bolt without it.
Anti-seize – I used Permatex copper.
Hex drivers for 3/8” drive and 3/8” drive universal.
Service covers – these saved my fenders and paint from not only greasy hands and tool accidents, but also from shall we say a few unavoidable beverage spills!

Anyway, sorry this is so long but I hope it helps the 16V guys,

Tom928
'81 928 auto / guards red / black 93k
'84 928s auto / kiln red / tan / 112k

 

Thank you so much for the insight on the 16V engine. It will prove most helpful while I am tackling my job in the next few weeks. By the way, how bad was your water pump leaking?

Thanks,

 

The water pump leak was enough to cover the lower parts of the engine (oil pan, alternator, compressor etc) with a light film of anti-freeze after about 5 minutes of running. This was mostly from the fan blowing it on everything. After running, it would drip from the top of the oil pan for several minutes.

One more suggestion is to disassemble the front of the engine and TB/WP, clean the parts and inspect things. The timing belt I would replace and the WP is a given, however, check the gears for wear and the lower roller bearing and front crank seal. 2 new crank washers are a given from my experience.
Once you know the condition of everything; then go order parts. I originally ordered a TB/WP kit and later found I needed new gears, lower roller bearing and crank washers – the stuff that doesn’t come with the TB/WP kit.

Tom928
’81 928 / guards red / black / 93k
’84 928s / kiln red / tan / 112k

 

If you let PorKen help with the timing belt, you'll find that your car is suddenly 700lbs lighter, all the vacum hoses are missing, the parking brake lever seems to raise and lower your car, and there will be a todo list taped to your windshield that can only be removed by replacing the glass with Lexan - yes somewhere during that process you'll find you have a new timing belt and water pump

 

That's called collateral fixing...

 

Good write-up Tom! Gracias!

Harvey