Finally..the PICS of the 928 that has been sitting for 10years..thoughts?
12-31-2005, 05:39 PM
#32
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I doubt it has sat for 10 years. That is most likely a cover up for something wrong or an incompetent owner who can't make it run right.
The seats are 84 and earlier. The button release is correct. If they have been recovered, they did a good job on wrapping the 'blocks' in the centers. All US cars had 85+ seats and door panels. In 85 and maybe 86, the earlier panels were still available on Euros. I have seen pics of several 85s with pre-85 doors. The older seats seem rarer, but could be correct.
The hesitation is probably vacuum leaks, bad plugs/wires, and/or clogged filters. However it could be bad MAF, LH, EZF, or several other more expensive fixes.
Somethings to look for...
Check under the carpet on top of the gas tank for the option codes. Write them all down and check them when you get home. 220 is a good one to have (limited slip differential).
Check if it has headers. If so, any clutch work will be a PITA. (see my sig line)
Check fuel lines before driving. If it really has sat for 10 years (doubtful) and the tires are that bad, you could end up driving a fireball.
Check the timing belt condition (and if possible, tension). You can view condition quickly by pulling the intake tubes and looking into the toips of the covers. It's rubber and could be like the tires.
Look for an O2 sensor that could indicate some federalization mods to the LH.
Check for ABS. You cropped the 7th pic too close on the right to see if there is an ABS unit.
Check for suspension mods like adjustable drop links, bilstein or Koni shocks... it will give an indication if the car was loved at some point.
Look for dates on replacement parts like air filter, oil filter, tires (including model name/numbers) which would indicate how true the 10 year story is.
The seats are 84 and earlier. The button release is correct. If they have been recovered, they did a good job on wrapping the 'blocks' in the centers. All US cars had 85+ seats and door panels. In 85 and maybe 86, the earlier panels were still available on Euros. I have seen pics of several 85s with pre-85 doors. The older seats seem rarer, but could be correct.
The hesitation is probably vacuum leaks, bad plugs/wires, and/or clogged filters. However it could be bad MAF, LH, EZF, or several other more expensive fixes.
Somethings to look for...
Check under the carpet on top of the gas tank for the option codes. Write them all down and check them when you get home. 220 is a good one to have (limited slip differential).
Check if it has headers. If so, any clutch work will be a PITA. (see my sig line)
Check fuel lines before driving. If it really has sat for 10 years (doubtful) and the tires are that bad, you could end up driving a fireball.
Check the timing belt condition (and if possible, tension). You can view condition quickly by pulling the intake tubes and looking into the toips of the covers. It's rubber and could be like the tires.
Look for an O2 sensor that could indicate some federalization mods to the LH.
Check for ABS. You cropped the 7th pic too close on the right to see if there is an ABS unit.
Check for suspension mods like adjustable drop links, bilstein or Koni shocks... it will give an indication if the car was loved at some point.
Look for dates on replacement parts like air filter, oil filter, tires (including model name/numbers) which would indicate how true the 10 year story is.
12-31-2005, 06:17 PM
#33
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Mark,
or anyone in the know
I have seen these remarks from others before, can you expound a bit. Why would these be faster or better than an 86 32v. I haven't seen many dyno charts from the euro's. What are the big differences that make these preferable?
Thanks
or anyone in the know
I have seen these remarks from others before, can you expound a bit. Why would these be faster or better than an 86 32v. I haven't seen many dyno charts from the euro's. What are the big differences that make these preferable?
Thanks
Originally Posted by Mark
You've gotten a lot of advice here. 84-85 EURO's are hard to beat! (I may be a bit prejudiced, tho!). These 16V screamers can give fits to most ANY shark (ummm - well not a SC'd one!).
:
:
12-31-2005, 06:41 PM
#34
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The Euro S 4.7L motors have bigger valves in better flowing heads with a better flowing intake and bigger throttle body. The cams are more aggressive, no cats, 300hp 16v engine. Basically the entire top of the motor is different from the us 16v motors. The euro cars stayed 16v until the S4's but out performed the earlier US 32v "smog" motors which were held back by US pollution requirements. The 78 and 79 euro cars were the same as the US cars and through the following pre S4 years there was a standard 928 in addition to the S models which performed like the US 16v cars.
12-31-2005, 06:46 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by EB338
The Euro S 4.7L motors have bigger valves in better flowing heads with a better flowing intake and bigger throttle body. The cams are more aggressive, no cats, 300hp 16v engine. Basically the entire top of the motor is different from the us 16v motors. The euro cars stayed 16v until the S4's but out performed the earlier US 32v "smog" motors which were held back by US pollution requirements. The 78 and 79 euro cars were the same as the US cars and through the following pre S4 years there was a standard 928 in addition to the S models which performed like the US 16v cars.
Actually 310 HP!
10:1 Compression sure doesn't hurt, either!
12-31-2005, 06:51 PM
#36
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Yes, how could I forget 10:1 compression, which also makes a 16v motor interference like the 32v. Europe had the higher octane regular fuels much longer than the us which didn't hurt either. PLEASE check the timing belt and fuel lines before driving this car!
12-31-2005, 07:09 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by EB338
The Euro S 4.7L motors have bigger valves in better flowing heads with a better flowing intake and bigger throttle body. The cams are more aggressive, no cats, 300hp 16v engine. Basically the entire top of the motor is different from the us 16v motors. The euro cars stayed 16v until the S4's but out performed the earlier US 32v "smog" motors which were held back by US pollution requirements. .
Is that bench measured CFM when you say "better flowing heads"? I would think the 32V head CFM is close to that of a 16v Euro. Cams more aggresive? I thought the 85-86 cams were like that of a GT..?
I think you hit the nail on the head with the pollution requirements.
You put a better,, open exhaust on a 86-86 and it changes the performance greatly.
12-31-2005, 07:22 PM
#39
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If the S3 heads flowed as well as S2 heads, I don't think the racers would be swapping them to make more power. DR commented recently that S2s and GTs perform about the same with the S2 having more low end torque. S2s seem to be a lot more sensitive to exhaust restrictions. They also weigh less.
I don't know how much difference the compression ratio makes. The (Porsche spec) 9.3:1 Euro catalyzed motors are rated at higher HP than the 10:1 S3 motors. Maybe they have different cams to go with the lower compression. I've only found reference to their pistons and valve stems being different. From K-jet to LH-jet Euros: CR went up .4, HP went up 10, and torque went up about 30. I'd guess that the injection system made more of that difference than the small CR change. That is assuming that Porsche's CR specs are accurate.
I don't know how much difference the compression ratio makes. The (Porsche spec) 9.3:1 Euro catalyzed motors are rated at higher HP than the 10:1 S3 motors. Maybe they have different cams to go with the lower compression. I've only found reference to their pistons and valve stems being different. From K-jet to LH-jet Euros: CR went up .4, HP went up 10, and torque went up about 30. I'd guess that the injection system made more of that difference than the small CR change. That is assuming that Porsche's CR specs are accurate.
12-31-2005, 07:23 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Abby
Is that bench measured CFM when you say "better flowing heads"? I would think the 32V head CFM is close to that of a 16v Euro. Cams more aggresive? I thought the 85-86 cams were like that of a GT..?
I think you hit the nail on the head with the pollution requirements.
You put a better,, open exhaust on a 86-86 and it changes the performance greatly.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the pollution requirements.
You put a better,, open exhaust on a 86-86 and it changes the performance greatly.
Yes, I mean better CFM. The Euro S heads are totally different from the US heads. Larger valves, as well as larger intake and exhaust ports. They also have more material in these areas so they can be ported further. The Euro intake is also different from the US intake and the throttle body is larger to meet the higher flow requirements of the heads. A US 16v head can at most be ported to meet the euro heads in factory form. The Euro S cams are more aggressive than the US 16v cams to match the different flow characteristics of the heads.
Greg Gray in Australia who posts here has done a lot of work with the Euro 16v heads and after extensive port work and even larger valves I think he said he ended up flowing basically equal to the 32v heads so I assume they do not flow as well as 32v heads in factory form. I really don't know the differences between the 32v heads so Im not sure which year 32v heads he was talking about.
12-31-2005, 07:28 PM
#41
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Greg Gray's modified heads flowed as well as S4 heads. I think the S4 head data was provided by Mark Anderson. I don't think Greg actually got much more flow by porting.
12-31-2005, 07:37 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
I remember him getting a great deal more flow, especially as he increased lift. I'm sure he'll chime in here. Somewhere he posted his results. He has been more than sharing with all the expensive info he has learned.
12-31-2005, 07:42 PM
#43
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12-31-2005, 08:06 PM
#45
Drifting
This comes up every once in a while, the bottom line is the lh euro, if a good example, simply hauls and is a real prize!
Anecdotal- DR's comment ref. above, cheburator in the UK says his euro is better than his GT, many other comments over the years making similiar remarks by guys who owned both euro and later models. One guy on here commented about driving one at a used car dealer a year or so ago and could not say enough about it.
Personal- I have driven a number of cars but my euro just hauls *** and contrary to what some say its torque is incredible able to burn out at will. It also has the optional A28.06 tranny and lsd.
Porsche- engine design chief- (the big cheese) ;
Anecdotal- DR's comment ref. above, cheburator in the UK says his euro is better than his GT, many other comments over the years making similiar remarks by guys who owned both euro and later models. One guy on here commented about driving one at a used car dealer a year or so ago and could not say enough about it.
Personal- I have driven a number of cars but my euro just hauls *** and contrary to what some say its torque is incredible able to burn out at will. It also has the optional A28.06 tranny and lsd.
Porsche- engine design chief- (the big cheese) ;