deimos

Up to three weeks ago the car was a daily driver. I winterized the second weekend in Nov before the snow fell. Put in fuel stabilizer, removed the battery. Went to take it out for a spin today, it doesn't start. Battery is fully charged. All grounds are good.

It cranks over just fine. Just as you hear it start to catch, it doesn't and keeps cranking.

It gets spark at the coil, the rotor spins, every plug gets spark. It's getting fuel because you can smell it. I haven't mashed the pedal figuring I'd flood it. I have gone through steps assuming it's flooded.

I've checked the fuel relay and all fuses to be ok. I've replaced the fuel relay with a new one for grins.

I've searched rennlist for hints. I keep seeing "refer to LH diags" but can't find them in my workshop manuals, nor can I find then written out. I can find posts that suggest to just replace the LH unit and be done with it. I'm trying to avoid that.

I figure it's something stupid I'm missing. Thoughts?

SteveG

Well, if it did catch or cough, this would not be it, but try slamming the hatch. My '85 sometimes needs that kick as she won't start if the hatch is open or she thinks the hatch is open.

deimos

Actually, I found these, http://www.nichols.nu/tip540.htm

After going through them, still no start.

rixter

you probably checked this already, BUT
is it actually getting fuel to the injectors? relay could be good but pump bad
just a thought

heinrich

take a look at the spark plugs. may need a good clean. also, is your battery fully charged?

heinrich

US 1984 has no LH, it is L-Jetronic (AFC -"Air Flow Controlled") and they almost never fail.

PorKen

Try using just a touch of pedal while starting. Your cold air bypass valve may be bad.

If the thermo-time switch or cold start injector is bad, you can still start, but you may have to crank it a few separate times in succession to build up enough gas to start.

bran3b

This may not apply, but when my 82 had the same symptoms it turned out to be the connector into the thermostat housing. I had bumped it whene doing other work and made the car seem like it was flooded. Once it was reseated the car started bur coughed a little for 15 or 20 seconds. I then removed the connector and recreated the condition to prove it to myself.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Correct , temp sensor II has the ability to keep the 1980-84 engine from starting if the resistance is too far out of range.

deimos

Thanks for the pointers. The battery is fully charged. Doesn't start even on the 10 amp starter/charger.

Giving it a bit of gas doesn't seem to do anything, except flood it.

I pulled out the easy plugs to get to on each bank. Each looked nearly new, which they should. I replaced them 2 months ago.

The temp sensor is brand new from 928Intl. However, what's normal resistance? What if I shorted across the inputs to skip the sensor?

Tomorrow I'll go through the ground points again. I went through and scrubbed them all down for the winter. Maybe I broke something.

And you're right, it's L-Jetronic, which are supposed to be bulletproof. Somehow, I forgot about that.

The joys of 928 ownership!

rjtw

You mentioned only the fuel relay. Replace the infamous fuel injection relay. Make sure it exactly matches the one you replace (apparently some have one more pin than others).

Your symptoms are consistent with a failed relay (and other causes of course too). The car can just barely start on a puff of gas delivered from the cold start (9th) injector, but no gas is delivered via the main injectors to keep it going. Usually after a couple of attempts it won't even catch again unless you leave it sit for a few hours.

After the car catches and dies, can you hear the fuel pump running for a few seconds? This should be the case.

You can also check for L-jet function by examining the signal to an injector -- the injectors should get full-time 12V on one lead and cyclical switch to ground on the other lead. Happens in banks of 4.

Search for "fuel injection relay" for a bunch of posts about non-start L-jets -- but in many cases like yours where it runs fine one day and not the next, it's the FI relay. (Are you sure you did not damage or misconnect anything as part of your storage procedure??)

Rick

deimos

Does anyone make a complete fuse/relay kit for the 928? Most of my relays are original, just wondering if there was an easier way than ordering them all individually.

WallyP

"The battery is fully charged. Doesn't start even on the 10 amp starter/charger. "

You should NEVER try to start a 928 using any kind of electrical battery booster or "quick-start" charger. Take the time to fully charge the battery, then try to start the car.

Try pressing the throttle, then starting the car.

Try pushing the plate in the air flow sensor open and then starting the car - Watch out for backfires that will singe the hair off your arm!

Use a rubber or plastic tube or pipe to listen to an injector while someone cranks the engine - there should be a regular "click - click - click" as the engine turns over. If no click, suspect the fuel injection relay.

Listen at the rear of the car while someone tries to crank the engine. The fuel pump should buzz while the engine is turning and usually for two seconds more. If not, suspect the fuel pump relay and/or the fuse.

No relay/fuse kit that I am aware of, but certainly Jeannie can make you up a full set. I don't recommend it ($$$), but she can certainly do it.

SteveG

You will find fuse kits on ebay, but they are standard 5,10,15, etc fuses. You can get those anywhere. If your relay chart is missing from the footwell, a little research on 928gt.com will show you which relays are interchangeable. And you can print one off DR's site. I think what Wally is getting at is that you don't need one of each of the 25 or so relays; you just need an assortment of 3 or 4 and they can suggest which ones; and hopefully not the $53 one. And Wally has a write up here for a "fuel pump relay jumper."

deimos

I've now replaced the fuel pump relay and fuse. I replaced a few others while I was at it. The ECU relay, the fuel pump, and starter relays have been replaced.

I've done a lot more debugging and here's what I find:

At the fuse, #22, when the key is turned to on/or cranking, I get a steady 12v on the bottom of the fuse contacts. I put a red 16A fuse in place. I hear the injectors clicking when trying to start, and after turning the key to off.

It turns out, the fuel pump isn't getting any power. I've done everything sort of taking the fuel pump out and hooking it up to 12v to see if I get anything out of it. I'm measuring at the terminals, which I figure if the fuel pump is dead, it should still read 12v.

Next is to figure out that fuel pump relay jumper.

Thanks for the pointers on this.