Twin Screw “Pre-Install for Dummies” Thread
12-22-2005, 11:21 AM
#1
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Twin Screw “Pre-Install for Dummies” Thread
I have worked on many cars over the years and done a fair amount on my 928’s, but I have never installed a supercharger before. I purchased Mike Spiegel’s J/E non-IC kit after he wrecked his car and hope to start my install over the holidays (just waiting on the rest of the parts from Andy).
I have been sending notes to some of you that have already installed one of these and have received answers to some of my pre-install questions already like:
Q. Can I paint my Supercharger? A. Yes, use heat paint or power coat.
Q. Clean or buy new injectors? A. They are 20 years old, buy new ones.
“The Twin Screw Thread” has a lot of good info, but some of it is way over my head. Therefore, the Twin Screw “Pre-Install for Dummies” Thread for us just starting down the slippery slop with way more questions than answers. Here is my top 10 list:
1. What should I check when I disassemble the stock intake, like throttle linkage travel?
2. While you are at it … this is a good time to replace what parts?
3. What is the difference between a 928 Specialists AFPR and a BEGi FPR?
4. Can I use my 928 Specialists AFPR with my initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) or should I go back to the stock regulator?
5. For an initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) 24# injectors should be ok. How do you know when I will need 30# injectors?
6. Is the need for an IC just based on air charge temp (what is the temp limit) or something else?
7. How hard will it be one or two years from now to pull my SC if I decide I want to install an IC? Just more work, or will the Right Stuff sealer make it impossible to remove the intake/gaskets?
8. At what rwhp range do you start to have major trouble with wheel spin? I know, tires size, compound, axle ratio … just looking for a range. At what point is it very hard to control?
9. What gauges should be mounted for initial install/trouble shoot (A/F, boost, fuel press, temps, ...).
10. What gauges should be considered for permanent in-car install?
Any pre-install advice welcome, but keep your answers in “Pre-Install for Dummies” terms.
Web sites that you have found helpful (general ed, parts, tools) would be good too.
I have been sending notes to some of you that have already installed one of these and have received answers to some of my pre-install questions already like:
Q. Can I paint my Supercharger? A. Yes, use heat paint or power coat.
Q. Clean or buy new injectors? A. They are 20 years old, buy new ones.
“The Twin Screw Thread” has a lot of good info, but some of it is way over my head. Therefore, the Twin Screw “Pre-Install for Dummies” Thread for us just starting down the slippery slop with way more questions than answers. Here is my top 10 list:
1. What should I check when I disassemble the stock intake, like throttle linkage travel?
2. While you are at it … this is a good time to replace what parts?
3. What is the difference between a 928 Specialists AFPR and a BEGi FPR?
4. Can I use my 928 Specialists AFPR with my initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) or should I go back to the stock regulator?
5. For an initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) 24# injectors should be ok. How do you know when I will need 30# injectors?
6. Is the need for an IC just based on air charge temp (what is the temp limit) or something else?
7. How hard will it be one or two years from now to pull my SC if I decide I want to install an IC? Just more work, or will the Right Stuff sealer make it impossible to remove the intake/gaskets?
8. At what rwhp range do you start to have major trouble with wheel spin? I know, tires size, compound, axle ratio … just looking for a range. At what point is it very hard to control?
9. What gauges should be mounted for initial install/trouble shoot (A/F, boost, fuel press, temps, ...).
10. What gauges should be considered for permanent in-car install?
Any pre-install advice welcome, but keep your answers in “Pre-Install for Dummies” terms.
Web sites that you have found helpful (general ed, parts, tools) would be good too.
12-22-2005, 12:18 PM
#3
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5. 24 will be fine, you will know when you need 30's when your a/f meter says you are running lean
7. Not real easy but doable, I had to pull mine a few times at first because I didn't have the steps to the install down, (not that there was any), and then again to make sure it was sealed up right.
8. 400rwhp with 9" rears and kumho's
9. For what you are doing air/fuel and boost with a fuel pressure gauge.
10. Once my install was done all I had was an air/fuel meter, I disconnected my boost gauge.
7. Not real easy but doable, I had to pull mine a few times at first because I didn't have the steps to the install down, (not that there was any), and then again to make sure it was sealed up right.
8. 400rwhp with 9" rears and kumho's
9. For what you are doing air/fuel and boost with a fuel pressure gauge.
10. Once my install was done all I had was an air/fuel meter, I disconnected my boost gauge.
12-22-2005, 12:38 PM
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Yeah that too!When you start pulling your stock intake, a lot of stuff is going to crumble and fall apart. The real challenge is knowing what to replace and what to leave out because you won't be needing it.
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12-22-2005, 12:52 PM
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It would be nice to do a compression test and even a leak down test prior to any modifications and a base line dyno run stock would tell you where you are starting out. Doing a tune-up spark plugs caps rotors and ignition wires seems like a good thing before you subject the engine to higher levels of stress. The comment on fuel lines is because the higher fuel pressures are much more likely to cause a marginal hose to fail. The heater hoses coolant hoses should at least be checked since the engine is likely to produce more heat/pressure. Basically you want the engine to run as well as it can BEFORE you start to modify things and be sure to at least carefully inspect the timing belt rotating the engine to examine ALL of the belt. One local customer found something like 5 teeth missing from his belt which LOOKED GREAT everywhere else ! that was as he was installing a blower.
12-22-2005, 01:57 PM
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In prep for this install I have already:
Replaced the all belts, hoses, water pump, spark plugs, oxygen sensor, 75C t-stat, and camshaft seals.
Installed dual electric fans and remove the smog pump.
New fuel pump/filter/check valve and rear fuel lines.
Installed an ARM-1 below the climate control head.
Run a baseline dyno … more things to check after the run (see below).
I have many other things planned during the SC install (since I have all winter):
Check/Replace fuel lines are defiantly at the top of the list.
New crank sensor.
Remove and paint/pc valve covers.
Check TDC (passenger side valves were slightly off when I did the TB/WP).
Check entire vacuum system (two leaks found in climate system already).
Remove and load check the alternator (low voltage with heavy loads).
Andrew, compression test party would be great. Want to come over here to my heated garage?
Replaced the all belts, hoses, water pump, spark plugs, oxygen sensor, 75C t-stat, and camshaft seals.
Installed dual electric fans and remove the smog pump.
New fuel pump/filter/check valve and rear fuel lines.
Installed an ARM-1 below the climate control head.
Run a baseline dyno … more things to check after the run (see below).
I have many other things planned during the SC install (since I have all winter):
Check/Replace fuel lines are defiantly at the top of the list.
New crank sensor.
Remove and paint/pc valve covers.
Check TDC (passenger side valves were slightly off when I did the TB/WP).
Check entire vacuum system (two leaks found in climate system already).
Remove and load check the alternator (low voltage with heavy loads).
Andrew, compression test party would be great. Want to come over here to my heated garage?
12-22-2005, 02:09 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Sharks
4. Can I use my 928 Specialists AFPR with my initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) or should I go back to the stock regulator?
You can keep it simple at first and just run it how I sent it, or you can add the AFPR in to richen up the mixture. I never ran the AFPR on my setup, so I couldn't give you much more info than that. As long as you have access to a wideband tuner, you should be fine. The only thing that matters is that you have good fuel mixture (assuming all other variables are accounted for).
5. For an initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) 24# injectors should be ok. How do you know when I will need 30# injectors?
As soon as you decide to run over 5psi and get an intercooler, I would suggest the 30# injectors.
6. Is the need for an IC just based on air charge temp (what is the temp limit) or something else?
The supercharger heats up the air as it compresses it into the engine. You will need an IC once you surpass a certain boost level because the output air charge from the SC will be hot enough to cause detonation/pinging.
7. How hard will it be one or two years from now to pull my SC if I decide I want to install an IC? Just more work, or will the Right Stuff sealer make it impossible to remove the intake/gaskets?
Right stuff is very easy to pull apart. At the most, you'll need a razor to cut it a little, or scrape it off the manifold.
8. At what rwhp range do you start to have major trouble with wheel spin? I know, tires size, compound, axle ratio … just looking for a range. At what point is it very hard to control?
I had BFG KDs on my car (a very sticky street tire), and my car would not loose traction at any time other than launch. I could be in first gear at 4K rpms, nail the throttle, and maybe only get a chirp (5spd tranny). I think this is the PERFECT amount of power (325-350rwhp) to have, without tirespin. Once you get closer to 400rwhp, you'll start having issues.
9. What gauges should be mounted for initial install/trouble shoot (A/F, boost, fuel press, temps, ...).
Boost/vac gauges are only good for initial install and troubleshooting. Assuming you have good vacuum at idle, and full boost on WOT, those numbers will never change unless something breaks.
10. What gauges should be considered for permanent in-car install?
Fuel pressure is good, but can stay under the hood. A/F is borderline.... I ran one while tuning my car, but took it out later on. Never needed it because the car always ran a good AFR.
You can keep it simple at first and just run it how I sent it, or you can add the AFPR in to richen up the mixture. I never ran the AFPR on my setup, so I couldn't give you much more info than that. As long as you have access to a wideband tuner, you should be fine. The only thing that matters is that you have good fuel mixture (assuming all other variables are accounted for).
5. For an initial setup (4-5 psi non-IC) 24# injectors should be ok. How do you know when I will need 30# injectors?
As soon as you decide to run over 5psi and get an intercooler, I would suggest the 30# injectors.
6. Is the need for an IC just based on air charge temp (what is the temp limit) or something else?
The supercharger heats up the air as it compresses it into the engine. You will need an IC once you surpass a certain boost level because the output air charge from the SC will be hot enough to cause detonation/pinging.
7. How hard will it be one or two years from now to pull my SC if I decide I want to install an IC? Just more work, or will the Right Stuff sealer make it impossible to remove the intake/gaskets?
Right stuff is very easy to pull apart. At the most, you'll need a razor to cut it a little, or scrape it off the manifold.
8. At what rwhp range do you start to have major trouble with wheel spin? I know, tires size, compound, axle ratio … just looking for a range. At what point is it very hard to control?
I had BFG KDs on my car (a very sticky street tire), and my car would not loose traction at any time other than launch. I could be in first gear at 4K rpms, nail the throttle, and maybe only get a chirp (5spd tranny). I think this is the PERFECT amount of power (325-350rwhp) to have, without tirespin. Once you get closer to 400rwhp, you'll start having issues.
9. What gauges should be mounted for initial install/trouble shoot (A/F, boost, fuel press, temps, ...).
Boost/vac gauges are only good for initial install and troubleshooting. Assuming you have good vacuum at idle, and full boost on WOT, those numbers will never change unless something breaks.
10. What gauges should be considered for permanent in-car install?
Fuel pressure is good, but can stay under the hood. A/F is borderline.... I ran one while tuning my car, but took it out later on. Never needed it because the car always ran a good AFR.
12-22-2005, 03:12 PM
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Thanks again Mike.
I am looking forward to starting, but I want to get this stuff straight before I do. I was planning to keep the AFPR on (may relocate it for easier access) and go back to the production chip set (I think you told me not to run the aftermarket chips).
#4. "As long as you have access to a wideband tuner, you should be fine." What do you mean by "wideband tuner"? I've got to get the lingo down too I guess.
I am looking forward to starting, but I want to get this stuff straight before I do. I was planning to keep the AFPR on (may relocate it for easier access) and go back to the production chip set (I think you told me not to run the aftermarket chips).
#4. "As long as you have access to a wideband tuner, you should be fine." What do you mean by "wideband tuner"? I've got to get the lingo down too I guess.
12-22-2005, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharks
Thanks again Mike.
I am looking forward to starting, but I want to get this stuff straight before I do. I was planning to keep the AFPR on (may relocate it for easier access) and go back to the production chip set (I think you told me not to run the aftermarket chips).
#4. "As long as you have access to a wideband tuner, you should be fine." What do you mean by "wideband tuner"? I've got to get the lingo down too I guess.
I am looking forward to starting, but I want to get this stuff straight before I do. I was planning to keep the AFPR on (may relocate it for easier access) and go back to the production chip set (I think you told me not to run the aftermarket chips).
#4. "As long as you have access to a wideband tuner, you should be fine." What do you mean by "wideband tuner"? I've got to get the lingo down too I guess.
When you tune your AFR, you're making changes to your fuel system (using an AFPR or RRFPR or sharktuner or SMT6, or whatever) to create an 11.5 - 12.5 AFR mixture at high-load/high-boost/WOT conditions. Since this target AFR mixture is outside the scope of accuracy for a narrowband sensor, you will need to install a wideband sensor to check and make sure that your AFR is where you want it at WOT (the 11.5 to 12.5 number I mentioned above).
So, generally you'll need to take your car to a muffler shop and have them weld in an "o2" bung. With the O2 bung in place, you temporarilly screw in a wideband sensor while you're at the dyno for tuning. Once you're done tuning and you know your car is hitting your desired AFR, you take the wideband unit out and go driving normally. Most dyno shops will have a "wideband kit" of some sort so it isn't something you need to buy on your own. If your car doesn't have cats, then you can just put the wideband sensor in the muffler while you do your dyno runs instead of putting in an O2 bung. Cats mess up the accuracy of AFR testing, so that's why you need to have an O2 bung installed pre-cat.
Just as an FYI, I thought it would be useful for boostards to know that cats DO change the AFR. I did about 10 runs on Tom's dynopak at devek and we compared the AFR reading of the dynopack (post cats) to my own readings pre-cat, and they were indeed different. Sometimes off by as little as .5 AFR points, sometimes as large as 2 AFR points.
12-23-2005, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by heinrich
Hey Sharks I'm surprised Shane didn't tell you right off the bat .... replace all your rubber fuel lines. That is pretty much a must-have 
Makes sure they are FUEL INJECTION lines, not just fuel lines.