Alan '79 928

I could use some opinions about an auto to manual transmission swap. I know this has been talked about and cautioned against but my mechanic (who knows 928s and who I trust) is eager to do it.

He has a 1981 parts car with complete 5 sp. transaxle. He says my car has a mount for the clutch MC that can be drilled out - so no cutting firewall. Does that sound correct?

I had my car at a transmission shop for a month and they did not fix it. If I keep the automatic I will order one from 928intl and have my mechanic install it. With shipping and installation it will be about $3000 (half my car's value).At this point I do not trust anyone else in town.

Mechanic will open up 5sp, rebuild what is necessary, and convert for similar price (no firm price yet but maybe $4000 max.) Does that sound possible? He never charges me alot and is as inexpensive as good mechanics come around here. AND I want a 5 speed.

Are we underestimating the job? The pluses are the donor car and the firewall mount. What scares me is everyone talking about what a huge job this is. But if we agree on a price range I know he won't charge me double or anything if it turns out to be a bigger job than he anticipated. What do you think??

Thanks,

Alan
1979 auto

crazycrazyfool

I'd say if your going to do it yourself, sure go for it. However if your paying your mechanic don't do it unless your planning to be buried in your car.

I spent 7k to swap a euro engine (engine cost and install) 3 years ago. If I could do it again I would have done it myself (a sad attempt at best) or just bought another 928. The week I finished the install I saw a euro same year for sale. I just remember thinking, I could have had 2 928's!

That being said I've spent everything on my 928, and do plan on being buried in it. Still haven't decided if the wife is allowed to be buried in it after all the mean things she says when I get it fixed

drnick

if you have the donor car for parts then the cost is dramaticaly reduced. however, rebuilding the manual tranny could be expensive and i would think you want to do this cause the earlier 5spd boxes have synchro issues. get a firm quote from your mechanic and if you are happy with it then do it. the most difficult part is pulling down the rear suspension/crossmember.

figure on replacing a few parts while you are in there, new clutch master cylinder, new ball cups on the shifter rod, new clutch kit... cant think what else??

IcemanG17

$4k for a complete auto to 5 speed conversion is a very good price! Far cheaper than what most others have paid when they installed it themselves! The estimate does sound very low from a mechanic....sure the parts car makes it cheaper...but that estimate would basically be all labor and the 5 speed tranny free?

Jim bailey - 928 International

You need to have a very complete and accurate written estimate of what is to be rebuilt and what is to be USED. What happens if the clutch pressure plate is bad or intermediate plate or short clutch shaft or friction disks are worn. How far into the transmission rebuild does the mechanic cover all the parts it might need ? The concern is you end up with nearly worn out clutch parts and a partially rebuilt transmission or you are given the choice of running the worn parts or kicking in lots and lots of additional $ "while you are in there ". So many shops seem to have difficulty completing a big job on time and on budget. In this case he must dismantle two cars and assemble one which will take some time but it should only take two or three days of actual labor with a lift and air tools for the switch plus any rebuild time. I would probably want to have all the parts from the donor car removed and INSPECTED before making a final agreements or paying any money. And like I said in the beginning a very firm written estimate of the $ and how long it will take. It is also best to only pay when the job is complete and pay by credit card when possible.

Weissach

It's actually very easy if you have a donar car. Infact, I had a friend do it. I sold him a complete parts car(5-speed, 78"). He did the swap on his 81" automatic. He did all the work himself in his backyard and it took him only two weekends. I gave him the parts car for $600, so it was cheap... Who's working on your car down here??

DG84S

Alan,
I believe Sterling in Dallas, in addition to his variocam ingenuity, converted his 928 from auto to 5-spd. You might send him a PM and get him to call you.

Alan '79 928

Thanks guys, you all make good points.

Crazyfool - I know what you mean. I'm so deep into this car I'll probably keep it forever. I wish I knew what I know now before I bought it.

Brian - that's what concerns me, the price seems low with the rebuild.

Drnick, Jim - Good advice on the written estimate and the new parts. I know this is gonna take time, but thats ok. Like you said, I can't have it go thousands of dollars over budget.

So, if/when I call 928 intl. for new/rebuilt parts, what will I need?
New master cylinder, new shifter ball cups, new clutch kit -what does this include)

Can I buy these new or rebuilt ? Are they part of the clutch kit? Exposing my ignorance here Jim but I want to avoid the scenario you described.

Weissach - That's the most encouraging info I have recieved about swapping. My mechanic is Igor at National Auto Projects in Pompano.

DG84S - That's a good idea. I'd like to talk to him.

Thanks everyone for the advice. The more I learn the more there is to consider. I'll let you guys know when I decide

Alan

drnick

as per usual jims advice dosent leave much out! i think his suggestion to have the parts from the donor car inspected is particularly sound. dont be put off by the note of caution though, just plan the project well in advance and have your mechanic agree. the idea in principle is very straightforward and if there are no problems then the swap just goes ahead. the difficulties arise typicaly with the quality of the used parts you are installing, tranny, tourque tube, clutch assembly, hydraulics, flywheel and any used beyond service items you discover on your own car at the same time ie driveshaft boots etc. servicing or replacing the above listed items is not inexpensive!

Jim bailey - 928 International

At a minimum use a NEW master cylinder, new pilot bearing, plastic arm bushing , as far as everything else it depends on how good or bad the used parts are. A clutch kit ($695) is release bearing two friction discs and the pressure plate. The intermediate plate is separate and rather expensive ($695). The short clutch shaft on which the friction discs rides has splines which get worn by the back and forth movement from power on power off ,that shaft is over $240. So as you see the condition of the used parts is very important to the success of this project !

PorKen

Is your 3-speed bad?

I really woke mine up by adjusting it properly (throttle cable and modulator), and replacing the stock cooling with an air/oil ATF cooler*.

Now it shifts very firmly. I really like the gear ranges too: 0-60, 60-90, 90-150!

*Changing the banjo fittings at the trans to straight through connections was probably the best change.

Alan '79 928

OK Jim, I see how it can get expesive. I'll definitely have him remove/inspect everything before deciding.

Porken - Yes the 3-speed is bad. It wouldn't shift from 2nd to 3rd when cold. Soon it wouldn't shift 2-3 even when warm. I took it to a trans shop, they "rebuit" it, put it back in car, and now it shifts erratically 1-2 and 2-3. Sometimes it does shift, mostly not. I got the car back, they did not charge me, but there is no one I know I can trust to fix it in S. Florida. I always thought what you did with your transmission was pretty cool.

Thanks,

Alan

svp928

I am new to this forum, this is my first post- but having done this swap myself, I thought I could contribute...
My car is an 85, and when I did this swap, I had a lot of help from from Mark at 928 Int'l. I put in an 83 Euro close-ratio, 2.72 final, LSD transaxle. Mark had it rebuilt by his trans guy, and he sold me all the necessary parts to go with it, including a section of the firewall with the clutch mastercyl mount.

After getting all the parts and pieces, and mocking the whole assembly up on the floor, the actual swap only took about 12 hours on a lift, and was very simple and straight-forward. Everything came out and went back in like it was designed that way... The most difficult part was the mastercyl/firewalll install, and that was just because of the contortions you have endure to reach it.

The difference in how the car the feels and drives was worth the cost, if you ask me. I drive in club and DE events at my local track ( Laguna Seca), and this swap absolutely makes it a whole different car. I would do it again at twice the expense, but that's probably because this car is a hobby/toy/entertainment for me. I don't think its a good value if plan on selling the car- you should do it only for your own personal enjoyment.

Everything Jim said is valid, and I know that the 928 Int'l crew is right on top of what is req'd for this. If you have any specific questions I can help with, I'd be glad to. I will be looking here from time to time as i read through all the info, so it may be a day before I get an answer back.

This forum is a great thing for a 928 nut!

Steve

Alan '79 928

Good info, Steve. It's good to hear from another person who has done the swap. I wish I had the skill to do it myself. I have not talked to my mechanic since before Christmas but I am ready to go ahead and do it. The car is not leaving the family anytime soon - so I may as well get the manual I have always wanted.

Thanks for the info and I will definitely get in touch with you with any questions.

Alan

jyoon

imho you may be better of just sell your car and buy a 5-speed. if you are considering putting 4k into the conversion, that seems like a lot. early cars (5-speeds) aren't that uncommon and are not that expensive.