IcemanG17

Tony
Now thats an interesting idea....turbo with the TS intercooler? You might have to try it!

Darien

Mark,

Might want to talk to Tony, you two may end up with a "stage 2"

MarkRobinson

Maybe, I was taking a much more simple approach, both in time (install) & money. But hey, if you have a better intercooling setup, use it! I hope to have some temperature testing done on the dyno this weekend....to show efficiencies both with & without.

Tony

By no means am i saying that it is better, i was just taking advantage of what i already have on my car....a complete air water intercooler, large cobra heat exhanger, all my T-couples for temps. Manifold works well and is airtight...why change it if i could just run your piping straight to it.
Mark youve designed it from a clean sheet ...i was just looking at an option if i decided to go to a turbo in future. Who knows?

trust me..simple is good.

With an adapter plat on top, I would just run all your piping to this...

A.Wayne

Hello Guys,

Tony, that is great CAD work must have taken sometime .

Mark ,
I would make the output pipe 2 inchs from turbo to intercooler and 2 1/4- 2 1/2 on the intercooler exit to the intake , this will depend of course on the size of the TB.

The usual culpret in the lost torque at high rpm is a lack of exhaust speed caused by,

1. Too small an turbo exhaust housing ..
2. Too restrictive an exhaust.
3. Boost falling at high RPM
4. Poor mapping ,
5. All of the above


The power output is interesting from the view point that @ 6 psi you are seeing less than 400 whp. for comparision sakes ,

1. BMW M5 3.5 L@ 6 PSi 418 WHP
2. Nissan 350Z @7psi 408 whp
3. 911 3.4L single turbo @ 7PSI 458 Whp
4. Mustang cobra , 4.7 non SC /borla exhaust /stand alone/ 315 Whp NA


regards ,
wayne
www.tpgproducts.com

hacker-pschorr

I hope Tim doesn't mind me posting this:

Automatic S4 100% stock at 6psi no intercooler:

MarkRobinson

Hi Wayne, on your two lists: the first list, #3 is correct as i had a leak at my throttle body. New dyno coming this weekend. On your dyno's,
1: M5 is a 315hp motor NA, so that number is correct.
2: 7psi on a 350z is about correct as well
3: a 3.4 liter 911 engine with "normal compression (7.0 to 7.5:1) only makes about 380rwhp (if all's done correctly) @ 1-bar: which is 15psi, or about 190 normally aspirated if all's correct, meaning .5 bar would be about 285rwhp. A stock '91-92 C2 turbo with a 3.3 liter & stock K27 turbo @ the stock .7 bar commonly dyno about 270rwhp or so, consistent with my above references. I've never dyno'd @ 6psi, my last dyno was barely 5psi due to my leak & without an intercooler. Look at my 1/4 mile numbers, as they are with 5.8psi (boost leak fixed), though without an intercooler. The stock mustang cobras (SC) there were not trapping over 108 the entire night (two of them dueling it out)

Mark.

James-man

Also in response to Wayne, the cars referenced there probably have a much steeper HP curve so higher peak HP shoudn't surprise anyone. I think much of the intent of Mark's 928 turbo was to generate good power at low to mid revs. Not having to downshift to grab a power band appeals to many of us.

I really like what I am seeing here.

A.Wayne

Hello Mark ,
THe lowest whp we have ever seen out of one of our prepared 911's is 455 @1 bar the most 611whp @1 bar.
A bone stock 911 3.3 converted from cis -efi with stock intake manifold , small turbo will do 379whp @1 bar /380 ft. TQ.
Our prepared 911"s trap in the 144-152 MPH range with et's hovering around 10.7- 9.89.
At 1 bar you will see et's in the 10"s with MPH in the 132-137 range. At some customer's request we have set the low boost at .5 bar and we would still see power in the 435-479 range on some setups.
And Oh! the M5 motor prepared 725whp @1.4 bar

regards Wayne
www.tpgproducts.com

mspiegle

I don't think you can accurately make comparisons against those other cars. How about a comparison of peak torque? I bet the 928 would have a lead on some of those cars. Also, most 928s at 6PSI (with various forms of FI) barely hit 400rwhp (usually its in the high 300s). I think once you start hitting 7PSI+, you'll be getting that 400rwhp+ with most FI setups.

heinrich

Wayne, "cis 911" is a very broad term. What model, is it a 3.3; 3.2; 3.0? I don't see a 3.0 SC making anywhere near 379rwhp with a turbo and light mods - that would be THREE TIMES the stock horsepower. Not doubting you here, just asking for some detail.

1) what model?
2) what mods?
3) CIS left in-place? Assuming not
4) what compression?

Best,
Heinrich

Jim_H

Nice Tq line.

A.Wayne

Yeah but the S4 motor is considerable bigger than the others and this was not an attempt to put DOWN THE 928 MOTOR ! BUT JUST TO STATE THAT IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION , A 928 MOTOR PREPARED IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE OTHERS SHOULD OR WOULD PRODUCE MORE POWER FOR THE
SAME SETUP AS IN proper fueling ( mapping ) and correct turbo sizing etc.
I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE 650 WHP@ 1 BAR ( TURBO, SORRY SC GUY'S)
The S4 engine would be the perfect candidate and is a hell of a motor !

WAYNE
WWW.TPGPRODUCTS.COM

A.Wayne

Hello Heinrich,
I was describing a 911 turbo CIS car 3.3L we where talking turbos here.
not SC 's etc.
the Cobra mustang also Describe making 315 whp is a NA car not SC .
stock with DTA, Exhaust and pullies . completly stock they make 245 whp max


Wayne
www.tpgproducts.com

James-man

Sure you can compare. Get Mark's car on the freeway at 65mph in 5th gear. Get any of the others on the freeway at 65 mph in 5th gear. Drivers glance at each other and before even thinking about downshifting (and without downshifting) punch it. Mark walks away from any of them.

The left behind driver wants rematch. Both cars start in 3rd at cruising speed. Mark probably gets left behind.

Mark wants rematch. 4th gear at crusing. ??????

Assuming Mark likes to play, he won't get caught with his pants down.