James-man

Parts are available and cheap! It is the way to get into racing quickly and cheaply, so I've been told.

Drewster67

Depending on your club and venue - Old Rx-7's may be the way to get started.

Jim bailey - 928 International

James I just spent a few minutes on a spec Miata forum....seems $8-10 is a yeoman car, $20 a front runner and $30,000 for a top builders new turn key car. Word was Junkyard motors sometimes win in some areas but most run "blueprinted stock" engines. But they do field a LOT of cars and it is wheel to wheel racing, often closer than wheel to wheel !

GlenL

The spec Miata is a good way to go. I now two guys ho quit running 911s in DE to go race Miatas. Great AutoX and technical track cars.

You can still have a blast with your 928. Here's a list of time-trial results from my last DE:

OA CP Class Car Region Driver Car Desc. Best Lap Speed
1 911GT3Cup 1:52.952 95.615
2 89 944 S2 1:54.325 94.467
3 911 GT3 1:54.903 93.992
4 93 968 CS 1:56.712 92.535
5 83 911 SC 1:57.160 92.181
6 97 993 1:57.333 92.045
7 97 993 C2 1:58.655 91.020
8 993 1:59.020 90.741
9 94 968 1:59.355 90.486
10 944TS 1:59.681 90.239
12 86 911 1:59.996 90.003
14 944CS 2:00.844 89.371
15 80 928 S 2:01.078 89.198
16 944 T 2:01.525 88.870
18 944 T 2:03.041 87.775
20 944 2:04.567 86.700
25 92 968 2:07.795 84.510
27 93 968 2:10.823 82.554
29 89 944 2:11.367 82.212
31 80 911 SC 2:12.571 81.465
32 993 2:15.403 79.761
33 Boxster 2:16.104 79.351
36 911SC 2:19.235 77.566

These are preliminary results and I've cut out the cars where models weren't known. Also the names and such. This was at BIR in Minnesota.

The point I'd like to make is the cubic dollars between my time, 2:01, and the top times. A 911 GT3 is, what, $150,000 race car? A couple of those fast 993s are basically stock but expertly driven. The bulk of the fast cars are race-prepped cars that are trailered.

I'm running an old Euro S with Koni's, Eibachs, Hawk Blues and Victorracers. The DE budget is about $2k per year in mods and consumables. I figure there's a good 2 seconds to go just with better driving. My first time trial was 2:10.

Point: You can go "super fast" in your 928, with minor mods and still street it and drive to the track. A few weekends will get you addicted to the "go-fast crack pipe" but I don't think you have to buy a new car to be fast or to learn.

drnick

michelin pilot sport 2 are a good tyre for the street, and ive heard others reccomend them on the track as well. ive only done one trackday so far and they were excellent.

Gnarly 928

Have to chime in here with advice from someone who DID go the long, expensive but very fun route of building a racer, bit by bit, from a street car. Buy a car that is already track-prepared, you will be less involved with making the car better and more involved with making the driver better(at the track) Now, personally, I would not go the Miata route..I would be more inclined to go 951 or 911..those seem to be plentiful and cheap nowadays, with all the PCA 'racers' going into cup cars. Better still, look at the928 track cars available right now. That way, you have 'spares' with your other car. You can drive most any car to the track..look at what Mark Kibort gets away with on the street, in California, yet! If you even think of Miata..think of lawnmower racing, too...(just my personal opinion of Miata racing..but) If you do go the 928 track car route, make certain the 2/6 bearing oiling issues are taken care of..they WILL blow, eventually. If you think you are quick now..go for a ride with Mark Anderson or someone who IS really quick...
Don Hanson

Rehan

Don, is the accusump a good solution to the 2/6 bearing problem?

Gnarly 928

It seems to be, but it ain't "foolproof". Some have blown motors that were accusump-equipped. It must be properly installed, it must be used correctly and even then. some will say you can still have problems...For a few hundred bucks, it sure is a smart addition to any car, even a street driven 928..it "Oils the bearings" upon cold start-up..just that alone is pretty good for the internals..I wouldn't track my own 928 without an accusump..
Don Hanson

James-man

Zoiks. Another argument to bail on the 928.

Remind us of the risk of the 2-6 oiling issue. Is it from high g's on longish turns at high rpms that makes all this nastiness happen?

Staying on street tires might help keep the g forces down? Lugging through turns in higher gears is safer?

Just trying to figure out if intermediate students' equipment are at significant risk.

A few hundred bucks? Who sells them? My guess would be Quick Carl or Marc Thomas. Who can install them?

Rehan

I know that Devek has them, they have two different kits, one for pure racing use and one for street/track use.

GlenL

There a number of long threads on this. Please search. The basic issue is uncovering the pickup and shooting air into the bearings.

You can:

Keep RPMs down in corners.
Use better oil.
Use and Accusump.
Use a dry sump.
Have the crank re-drilled.

Then there's the Germn guy ho claims to solve the problem by grinding passages in the block girdle.

Gnarly 928

I don't know why this failure happens, but I know it does. Done one myself, my first GT motor blew, luckily when I was in transit to get my new stroker motor installed at Deveks and happened to stop at Thunderhill raceway in Nor Cal for a day of DE on the way..Mine was after a lot of hard tracking and highspeed hours on the GT motor. Mine had Mobil One oil inside when it blew. Mine had no accusump. Mine had the oil checked and changed without fail. There are all kinds of ideas of why this happens. There are opinions on how to stop it from happening..I believe using other than Mobil One(I have had 4 different motor failures using that stuff) Properly using an Accusump seems to help, also. No failures I know of using one, anyhow. Now, I don't care to debate any of this, it is just MY opinion, and I am no walking, talking statistical sample, just one guy who races his 928 sometimes.Good luck with it, you should be ok if you be careful with your oil level and install an accusump..Don Hanson

Gnarly 928

All the above are NOT what you DE for, right? The 928 does have some issues on track as it comes from the factory, yes. But you can fix em. Or buy a track prepared car from someone who has fixed them. One of the good issues about the 928 is how good it really is on the track, especially for a new driver who is just learning to handle a car at speed. You would certainly be in deep doo doo trying to learn car control with say a turbo 911, a Viper, a mid-engined car, or any of the other notorously "evil" handling cars. Sure, these work ok once you have a feel for driving "around" their handling quirks. 928s have no "glaring" faults in the handling department. They are heavy as stockers, yes. They do understeer, but not too bad that you would get into trouble with one at a DE. On the other hand, you can do lottsa stuff dead wrong, and still get away with it..Overcook a corner entry? No problemo, just get off the throttle...Don't try that in a 911...
No reason to keep yourself limited as you suggest above, once you "fix" the car to work properly..Any car that's built for the street will need work to be good at the track..Don Hanson

James-man

Thanks for the thoughts, Don.

I have heard of many many folks just putting track tires on their street 928 with no other mods and going. And then some also implement suspension upgrades as well. I would be a lot more comfortable installing an accusump before doing anything that allows me to corner with higher g's. I am concerned with risk but am somewhat comfortable with running street tires for the next couple of events this year. Definitely do oiling upgrades at the same time as any other upgrades next year.

I said I am somewhat comfortable. This means that I will probably stay out of the upper RPMs except in straights. Keep carousel turns below 4000 RPM. Does that sound low enough to you?

I would prefer to err on the conservative side when high $$$ equipment failure is at stake.

Thanks.

Drewster67

Personally - Ive never had oiling issues on the track.

My mods are simpe and direct.

Gutted and stripped
Interior Painted
MSDS Headers
2 into 1 - 3" pipe with 1 - 2 Chamber flowmaster at the end
Bilsteins all the way round
Front springs cut
Evo seat
G force harness
Rs303 (Wasted)

The problem I had when I blew my first motor was "cooling". Since then (same type but different motor) - no track issues to report. Ive had close to 3 hrs seat time since I put my current track car on the track. Not much by any standards but one would think if any issues would arise, it would of by now. Or is this pure speculation on my part.

Thanks