RDS928S

Yesterday I took my 86S for it's first highway cruise approx 45 miles on the NJ Turnpike. It was in the mid 80's. I noticed when i was holding the wooden shift **** that it was hot to the touch ?
Also the car felt very lazy/sluggish when accelerating from 50-80 mph. Once above 80 it seemed to have more throttle response and pull.
Engine is stock except Autothority software. 64k is the mileage.

Any thoughts?.


Thanks Rich

Gary Knox

Rich,

Did you have sunroof open? Or - windows open? IF one or the other, this may be due to engine heat being sucked up through the opening in the chassis for the shifter mechanism. There is a LARGE foam pad above the torque tube that is supposed to insulate the area and keep the heat from being drawn up there. However, if the engine mount are bad, and engine has dropped, or the pad has deteriorated, then heat can enter the cabin into the console area. Check and see if it still gets hot with the cabin closed. If the temp of the shifter is lower, then the problem is one of the above.
Gary Knox
West Chester, PA

RDS928S

Gary,

Thanks, yes sunroof was open. Windows were closed.
I will be installing Motorsports x-pipe soon and will check the insulation pad when it's in the shop.

Thanks Rich

DANdeMAN

I presume it's an AT!? If you want to feel the earth move at 50, downshift to 2nd, at 80, downshift to 3rd, it will satisfy your needs. At those speed, In Drive, RPM is between 1,500 and 2,500. IT will be "FAT & LAZY".

m21sniper

50-80mph is 2d gear territory in an A/T.

I don't even shift mine to third until 98mph when i'm running the Shark hard.

Gary Knox

Rich,
Just so you know, the torque tube needs to be dropped to get a replacement foam pad in place. And - last time I checked, the pads were ~$500 new!!!. I have a good pad from an '88 with 63K miles, but I'd first check on your motor mounts - when were they replaced? I had a similar problem with my first S4 ~8 years ago, and found that replacing the motor mounts did a great job, as that raises the torque tube up so it makes good sealing/insulating contact with the foam pad.

Good luck!!
Gary Knox
West Chester, PA

JimBob951

Bad motor mounts could be the culpret as well. The engine will sit slightly lower, allowing hot air to get past the heat sheilds above the torque tube right into the shift boot.

Jim
87 S4
87 951

RDS928S

Ok,

some good input/diagnosis as always from the rennlist.

It is an automatic and I usually don't down shift on the highway. I will try that though to see if it perks up the motor.
The car will be in the shop on Monday and I will have the motor mounts inspected.

A side note:
While returning home on the Garden Sate Parkway at 10:30 (after a few to many beers) I worked my way over to the fast lane. Everyone was buzzing along at 80 + so I picked up the pace a little. Next thing I know the blue and red lights are flashing in my mirror. An NJ trooper came out of thin air and was glued to my bumper. Pulled over in the next lane and he pulls up next to me for a while then turns off the lights and sprints away!!.
That scared the freakin crap out of me. The rest of the way home was 65 mph in the right lane.
I was tempted to race him though!!.

RDS

DANdeMAN

Maybe this could help!..

Gary Knox

Rich,
One more thought - has anything been done to the torque tube lately. The "slow and lazy" is one of the symptoms of pending Thrust Bearing Failure (dreaded TBF) on automatic cars. IF you want to be sure this IS NOT a problem, you (or you should have someone) loosen the torque tube clamp on the flex plate behind the engine and verify that the crankshaft end play is within tolerance. A friend and I bought a car last winter that had TBF. It lost about $6K in value over about 100 miles. It came within another 100 of losing even more, as the block was still OK, but would have been ruined within the next ~100 miles of driving. Don't want to scare you, but the symptom you described is a bit worrisome to me. Check Rennlist archives for Earl Gillstrom's fix for automatic transmission torque tube clamp "creep" that causes the pressure on the crankshaft. A couple of hours and <$5 for wicking locktite will eliminate the problem.
Gary Knox
West Chester, PA

RDS928S

Gary,

Thanks for that "heads up". I'll have my P-car wrench check it this Monday.
The original owner did not have any paper work on maintenance.
As far as I know -no work was done on the torque tube.
The only critical item he did was timing belt then re-tentioned at 60k.

Thanks
Rich

Ron_H

I have an '86. For as long as I have owned the car, with the windows or sunroof open or both, hot air will find its way past the cats and up through the central console. The day I bought it and drove it home this problem existed.
It gets hot enough to shut down the CD player and the faceplate of the radio and the window switches, as well as the shifter get hot enough to burn your finger. If a towel is not placed over the console to deflect the air, it will get hot enough to make you wish you were in Tucson, Arizona on a summer day.

First I called Jim Bailey, who told me the "motor mounts" story. Easy fix, right?
Wrong.

Next I took the car to Devek who told me my motor mounts were in great condition. The diagnosis was I needed to replace the "deteriorated" foam seal described earlier in this thread. At the price of dropping the torque tube, I passed. I kept the sunroof open and it became a moonroof. I still got a bit hot under the collar though, but lived with it.

Then my transmission began to slip in 3rd gear to 4th shifts. Wow, what a great opportunity to rationalize overhauling it and also replace that rotton foam pad. Happy days were here again (well, maybe for the VISA card company).
The trasmission was rebuilt, the foam pad was replaced, and I jumped in to try my new transmission and drive with sunroof open without AC on.
It would be a short drive 'cause gas was scarce since their was not much left in my bank account after the transmission and foam pad replacement. Devek took a week off though.

Well folks, the heat poured in through the console. I was pissed. But the trip across the USofA was only two days away, and someone suggested using a spray foam insulation injected under the shifter console to seal the hot air out. I decided against that and trusted my great AC system and set off to conguer the wild interstate system, all cool and comfortable.

1 day into Nevada and the AC system failed (well, really, I failed to detect a bump in the road and smashed the compressor on it). The rest of the 6000 miles I drove with the windows down and the hot air pouring in night and day.
And along the way I also managed to break the parking lock pawl and that means the transmission must come out again. (lucky me).

Devek continues to assure me that the foam pad is in position properly and the motor mounts are allright. Forget that. I will replace the mounts anyway when the transmission comes out again. Then I will use that insulating spray foam (that expands when sprayed into walls and solidifies) on the foam pad before reinstalling the shifter.

Moral: I have no belief in the motor mount theory, but will replace them WIAIT anyway to put that to rest.

RDS928S

Ron,

wow!!. That's quite a story.
Good info but scary info too. Good thing I live in the north east where it is hot only 3-4 months a year.
I guess I'll address the motor mounts, torque tube, foam pad, thrust bearing etc,etc, on Monday at the shop. I sense another 3k repair invoice.
Let's see in less than 6 months of ownership I will have spent more than half of what I paid for my 911 SC just to get the car semi reliable.
Someone once said these cars were just as cheap and reliable as any 911.
I guess i can sell my 911 to help pay for the 928 repair bills?

Seriously though- i will be removing the cats soon for the installation of Dave Lomas' x- pipe. Will the "catless" exhaust produce less heat in the passenger compartment ?. Do you think that foam stuff will really work?

Good luck. Let me know the outcome of the motor mounts replacement.

Thanks Rich

Ron_H

Yes, without the cats I suspect less heat will be produced, but some will make it through. Brian at Devek suggested the foam idea, and I have not tried it. Presently, I have a sponge stuffed into the console under the point where it bends and goes upward toward the windshield, just past the shifter plate. I removed the ashtray altogether and open the ashtray door to provide an exhaust point for the hot gases. That seems to keep the other parts of the console cooler and the CD player operative if I have the sunroof open. And since I still haven't fixed the AC, that means often. I have the new compressor sitting on my desk, but don't have the coins to install and recharge it 'cause I have to pay for the first repair.

Anyway try removing the ashtray if you don't smoke and leaving the door open and it will be less heat on the gear selector lever.

If I can find some cash somewhere I will do the spray foam after the torque tube is dropped to fix the transmission problem. But that may not happen for awhile because the car can be driven the way it is; I just use the handbrake instead of the park function. Taking the torque tube out is a major PIA and very costly.

RDS928S

Hey Ron,

forgot to mention when I stop the car and put the shifter in park the car will roll several inches if it's on a incline in park!!!.
Does that sound right?

Rich