mulik51

Ok, last words. I just did some search, it is not caustic, I mixed it with something else. So, sorry about that. But what about the cold shock? Becouse when you are going offroad, if you get water in the engine you get it cold shocked, which is not great. Then carbon build ups can fly off becouse of rapid temp change. Just my 2cents. I am not talking about nitrous anymore.

Klim
P.S. True, sorry for hijacking the thread.

m21sniper

OK, just to answer your final question(then i promise to shut down the nitrous talk too), the massive charge air temp reduction of nitrous A) massively increases the fuel air density(that = far more power), and B) greatly reduces the threat of detonation.

If you live in alaska you still drive your car, and it gets well down to -50 below F, which is about the same temp as nitrous is when it's atomized through the sprayer.

It's because of this that nitrous works so well with turbos and SCs, it is in effect the ULTIMATE intercooler.

Carl Fausett

Excuse me - Nitrous boys - but you are hijacking my thread.

Please start your own thread to discuss Nitrous or Nitrous vs Supercharging.

And by all means, search the Rennlist forum for that topic - much has already been posted.

Carl Fausett

Thanks, Bill. I have been writing technical manuals for software for 18 years now, and it transferred pretty easily to mechanical installation manuals.

We take "ease of installation by a regular guy" pretty seriously.

I think these manuals Bill Ball speaks of (for my 16v SC kits) are still at 928 International for anybody that wants to see them. You can't copy them or take them out of the building, but that is what they are their for - go look at 'em!

928ntslow

(I think my question is being avoided )

m21sniper

We did Carl, and i appologize.

Sorry bro.

I did say i thought your kit was reasonably priced though.

Tom. M

I don't think one of Tim's setups are on a GTS at the moment (could be wrong..just basing on what I have heard through rennlist), but Joe Dyer does have a vortech S/C'd GTS. He was an unfortunate victim of Munck, but I believe he got it sorted with the help of Devek, and DeltaP,and maybe even Tim's components. haven't heard much else about the car except what I saw at Devek days a few years back...Sounded and looked very clean and mean....

That said...I would think that 10.4 to 1 CR of the GTS would pose its own probs.but haven't heard anything to the contrary....Isn't CMW running a twin screw on a GTS...what is the status of that one?..

It's great that all the HP developments are happening for the 928.....
Here's a great round of applause for all you developers out there.. cheers...

Later,
Tom
midlman@rennlist.net
89GT

Carl Fausett

bfellows - Yes, we do that all the time for our international firends. There is probably some local Vortec dealer near you - I can give you the model number of the Supercharger and you can get it from them.

I just wonder if there is really much savings, as HE will have paid import tarrifs to import it, which he will more than likely pass on to you.

But whatever you like, research it, then call or email me.

Carl Fausett

The Stage 3 kit died a quiet death. You know, I never sold a one of those suckers? It was a lot of money, and you had to loose your Air Conditioning to fit it in.

When the Stage 2 kit broke the 350HP mark on the CIS cars and you could keep your air conditioner to boot, that was the end of the Stage 3 kit.

Less SKU's to inventory, better kit, easier install.

CMW

Not to steal Carls post... My twin screw is running great and yes there are some intersting twists to installing on the GTS... I can say that I have no, none, zero, concern with the twin screw at 5psi with intercooler... I may even try 6 PSI before sharktoberfest.... Mike is adding some extra goodies at the moment...

That being said and to bring the post back to Carl... before you installed his kit on a GTS, (and yes you will be taking a risk like I did) get his intercooled version and the most efficent Vortec SC that you can get from him and start boost at 5 PSI and work your way up...and as always make sure your engine is working properly first

Carl Fausett

928ntslow - I know we have several GT's out there with the Stage 2 kit (I installed one myself, for one) - but I am raking my brain to think of a GTS.

Not avoiding you (Who would dodge a question from the SoCal 298 guy? You think I'm NUTS?!? ) - just waiting on an answer from Tim - hoping he can remember one that I cannot.

Timee - you listening?

Carl Fausett

I have had a number of private emails asking very similar questions - and they are good questions - so I thought others might also like to see the answer.

Here we go:

Q1. What happens about a vacuum source for all the vac systems ?
A1: The vacuum still exists on the engine-side of the throttle plate, so there is no need for concern. Brake pedal booster (the largest single vacuum-driven system) still works normally, all the HVAC controls still work (they still have vacuum, not boost) - no problems.


Q2. Why no intercooler now ? Surely with the high comp ratio, detonation is now more likely ?
A2: We discovered that at 8 psi of boost, given the wonderful combustion chamber design of the 32v 928, the intercooler was over-kill. Remember that a centrifugal blower provides a cooler charge than say, a positive discplacement blower, so an intercooler is not as required. Then, because we add a FMU to increase the fuel delivery under boost, we are also quenching the charge with a cooling shot of gasoline. The 1988 Tim drove to Sharks in the Mountains (more like flogged all the way to SntM, I'm told) never pinged at his 10:1 CR ratio, no intercooler.

There will be a Stage 2 for 32v cars again, but it will be built on this foundation because it has all the refinements in it from 4 years and 23-some installs. When it comes out, (in 2006) current installs of this Stage 1 kit will just be able to upgrade to it if you find that 460 HP at the crank is not enough.


Q3. I have a 1989 S4 Euro, this has twin electric cooling fans standard, do I need anything extra ? ( Devek radiator )
A3: No, I do not think so. The stock radiators are very good, and the kit puts 4 fans on it for you. A 5th fan, a pusher from the front, is also available for you guys in the desert. According to our experience, that is all you will need.



Q4. Any option other than K&N filter ? K&N lets too much dust through & its oil will contaminate the MAF.
A4: Not from us, but I see more performance filters coming out all the time.
Fram Air Hog, Extreme Green, etc. I'll take $22 off the kit, keep the filter, and you can supply your own if you like. That's fine. No problem.


Q5. How many miles do you have on your vehicle with this kit ?
A5: About 10 months and 3,100 miles right now.


Q6. How much of a job to access front of engine now, ie, cambelt change etc ? Spark plug change hassles ?
A6: Timing belt changes - About the same as before, maybe easier. If your 32v car is '86 or older, it has the viscous-clutch fan on the front of the motor, that will be gone now so I think it might be even easier than before. If your 32v motor is 86.5 or newer, you have a radiator shroud with 2 electric fans on it that block the front of the motor, and those are now exchanged with 4 smaller electric fans more to the side. Its about an even trade.
No spark plug change hassles - two clamps remove the intake pipe on the RH side of the motor, the plugs are right there.


Q7. Does it fit RHD cars ?
A7: Absolutely. I have sold Stage 2 kits to RHD cars, and THEY fit, so I KNOW this kit will fit even easier.

IcemanG17

Its always good to see 928 HP development!! Stroker-SC-Turbo-nitrous whatever! Congraulations to Tim and Carl...great product & a simple-(er) install. 8psi with no intercooler and no problems...nice to see..plus a very rich 11 to 1 AFR....nice and conservative! Approx 18rwhp per psi gain is pretty good without an intercooler!

Sure an S/C kit costs money....its pretty simple...."How fast to you want to go?" "How much $$ do you have!"
Brian

Donald

Carl:
As to the group answers somewhat in response to my private query:
You live in WI, I live in Texas. I have been to WI in summer and it is similar to winter here- My question on the intercooler was not directed to the higher CR, it has to do with compensation for the much higher ambient temperature in which I operate. Ditto the question regarding effieciency of the 16" fan.
I am not an expert on boost, just looking for assurance.
Regards,

__________________

Tim Murphy

Hi Kieth.
I have a bunch of kits running on GT's and one on a GTS in New Zealand. That car has been running for a couple years and I have had nothing but good feedback. I wasn't made aware of any issues for the installation if there were any. I don't think he ever dyno'd his car so I can't give you any performance numbers.
I will have to take a closer look at the way the factory breather setup is on the GTS to make sure what I would provide would be plug and play. I am not aware of any other obstacles at this point.

With respect to reliability, I would expect the sc kit to be very reliable on any of the cars. The GT's and GTS's have higher compression ratios but that has not been a problem at the boost levels of the kit. Chris (CMW) is running a twin screw at lower boost and claims all is good. With the gradual build up of boost with the centrifugal supercharger you avoid getting the lower rpm detonation by too much boost too soon. Less than 5 psi under 4k rpm seems to be the way to go.