deliriousga

Really aggravated. I've bled the system several more times today and the pedal still hits the floor. I'm at the end of my patience so I'm thinking about replacing the infamous "blue hose" and the master cylinder. I checked the other flexible pressure hose underneath and it feels fine, no bubbles or weak spots I can find in it anywhere. I also checked the metal lines and there are no kinks or pinched areas.

I replaced the slave cylinder a few months ago and it worked until recently. I replaced the rubber seals on the plunger in the master thinking that was the problem. I bled it using a power bleeder. First I bled the entire system starting with the brake master cylinder, then the wheels, then the clutch replacing all of my new DOT4 Valvoline Synthetic with ATE Super Blue so I knew when all of the fluid had switched over. After all of the fluid was replaced, I went to the clutch master cylinder and bled it from the inside so I had no air or old fluid in there. Next, I de-pressurized the pressure bleeder then I went to the slave cylinder and disconnected the 13mm bolts. I pulled the slave cylinder out enough to be able to push the slave push rod back into the cylinder and open the bleed screw. Got more air out, closed the screw and released the push rod. Repeated 4-5 times until no air came out any more. Pedal still goes to the floor so next, I re-pressurized the bleeder, opened the slave cylinder bleeder screw and pushed the clutch pedal in and out several times. I saw more bubbles so I repeated until no bubbles came out. Did the push rod thing again three times and no air came out. Pedal still goes to the floor!!!

I bled it again with the pressure bleeder and bubbles come out again so air must be getting in somewhere. I never disconnected the pressure bleeder so it was just fluid going in from the bleeder. That's why I'm looking at the blue hose and just replacing the master cylinder. I'm thinking of doing both because I've read so many threads that say you have to remove the master cylinder to replace the blue hose. I know it's a PITA job, but is it my only remaining option in the system? Where is the master cylinder from underneath? How do I get to it? I can't see it at all from under the car.

TIA

Carl Fausett

The clutch master is in a pretty ****ty spot directly beneath and a little behind the brake booster.

On a hoist, or with a car high on jackstands, you can get at the bolts pretty well from the bottom.

AO

John,
Sorry to hear about your woes! Don't give up. You would think that with the Power Bleeder, you would find any leaks in the Blue hose. Hmmm. I assume that when you have the power pressurized, it holds the pressure, right?

Anyway the master cylinder is located right below the fluid resevoir. I think you'll need to access it from above as it's rght at the top of the engine tucked nicely against the fender. Can't help beyond that. As you might know, I'm going to construct a 928 alter. I'll light a candel for you. Oooohhhhmmmmmmmmm [tranquility]mmmmmmmmmm

AO

Sorry, I thought you meant the brake master. My bad.

deliriousga

Andrew,
Holds pressure just fine. That's what's got me so puzzled. Thanks for the candle, it's been on stands for four weeks now and driving an Intrepid is not what I look forward to every day.

Carl, I have it up about 24" on stands. I can get under it on a creeper with about 8" above me. Is that enough room for the job?

Thanks guys!

Carl Fausett

Yes, that should be plenty. Can you see the clutch master? Look behind the steering column....

On my race cars, I wanted this to be more readily servicable, so I cut a access hole in the left front inner fender - makes servicing the clutch master easy. Then rivet a cover over it when done. Not a solution for everyone, but it does save a lot of time.

GlenL

If the pedal is staying down and the clutch is disengaged, then it could be a worn intermediate shaft. The clutch disc is getting stuck on the shaft and the arm is held back. Then the pedal is not pushed back up.

In that case, it could be that the bleeding operation frees it up and you're good for a while.

CWO4Mann

This sounds exactly what I am looking at with Kryptonite. Pedal goes to the floor and will not engage; pullin git back out with my toe, there is a distinct click or step about 2 inches upwards then a mushy return to extended (normal) position. Gears engage without clutch when engine off and when off the ground car will start and run in gear in all gears including reverse.

All Your Clutch Belong To Us!

I am sooooo looking forward to this job ....

Cheers,

Dave

deliriousga

In diagnosing this, would the clutch arm be in the open position (pushed back in the cover) if the shaft were sticking? My clutch arm is in the normal resting position (in gear) so I'm not sure if the shaft is sticking or not.

Schocki

Didn't read all the answers that you got, but here is a method that works great on a 944. Which is also extremely baaaaad to bleed.

Run a PVC tube from the front left brake caliper brake bleeder to the bleeder valve on your clutch slave cylinder. Open both bleeder valve and bleed the clutch slave cylinder by depressing the brake pedal a few times. You're bleeding the system the opposite way and you are pushing trapped air bubbles UPWARDS.
Let me know if this worked for you...

cfc928gt

Did I read it right that you just replaced the seals in the master cylinder? I would suspect this may be the problem with the seals not sealing properly. A few years ago I had a similair problem where my clutch master went out and I just replaced the insides from a new unit rather than replace the whole master cylinder since it's a PITA to do. I had the same symptoms, pedal would go all the way to the floor no matter how much I bled it. Ended out putting in a complete new clutch master. There's no pressure on the blue hose other than gravity so I don't think you're getting air in there, it would be leaking.

Carl Fausett

I agree with cfc928gt.

Brent 89-GT

I fell your pain. I replaced the blue hose last summer. There was much cursing and bleeding(not brake fluid either). I had to take the brake booster loose to squeeze in there.

There is another possibility. Air gets trapped at the clutch master. You need to hook the pressure bleeder back up, add a little pressure. Go under the dash and disconnect the linkage from the pedal. Now pull the carpet back a little and where the rod passes through the firewall I believe you push it in a little and angle it to the side to allow fluid to pass the seals. There is often a bubble trapped right behind the piston.

I really like the 944 trick idea. The convoluted path the fluid must take may be better serviced in reverse.

deliriousga

Yeah, I replaced the two rubber seals that are on the plunger, but I did not see any others. It's looking more and more like the clutch master cylinder is next. If I'm doing that, I'm going to go ahead and repace the blue hose since it's cheap and easy to do once the MC is out.

deliriousga

That's how I've been bleeding the master. Is there another way I should try too?