TRUESCOTSMAN

I have checked all the previous posts on this subject but nothing seems to match my particular problem.
Over the past few weeks, due to sluggish starting,, i have a new battery, doubled up my battery to starter lead and earth connections. Checked the temp ii sensor. stripped and cleaned the starter, Removed and cleaned all the earths to body points. cleaned all the fuses and relays, and now...............when the car is hot after some spirited driving....it wont start. even after an hour or so. Only way to get it started is a jump from my mates or brothers 928's.
When i try to start it without a jump i get about 5 or 10 seconds of slow cranking time then click click click from the solenoid.... with a jump the starter turns faster and it starts......idles badly for 10-15 seconds then runs great.
My thoughts................ Could it be...............a problem within the armature part of the starter that is shorting out when it is hot, causing the battery to drain itself when asked to start the car.. It must be taking so much power that it is leaving the LH ignition unit with so little power that it is unable to control the fuel mixture properly... The doubling up of batteries with the jump start giving it that bit extra to allow the heavy loss due to the short. Anyway ....enough of my ramblings,,, what is the verdict of the 928 owners collective brains,,,, am i barking up the wrong tree, or is this feesable.. My brother is coming down sometime this week so that i can borrow his starter. Even when mine is cold , his turns over twice as fast on his S2... CHEERS.....

crackerfeet

Even though the battery is new see if you can get it tested to make sure you don't have a bad cell or a dry cell. May be as simple as a buggered battery.

TRUESCOTSMAN

thought of that buddy,, this is the third one.....Jim

Lizard928

I would say that the starter needs some attention.

Randy V

Definitely sounds like a bad starter motor...except for the poor idling upon startup.

If the poor idling is due to a flooding condition while trying to start it that would make sense.

TRUESCOTSMAN

That was my thoughts randy. You can here it trying to clear itself of the extra fuel . and after a few seconds its fine............Jim

jetrainor

Sounds similar to my problem....starter cranks like crazy...about 10 secs into it, the motor catches briefly....more cranking and i have to give it a bit of gas pedal.....and it eventually starts and runs rich and rough for 30 secs....i think its a fuel computer problem but can seem to beg borrow or steal my way into the Pmechanic to get things sorted out...once running it runs well but does hunt up and down in park...in gear, the idle seems stable.
1987 euro auto

Steve Cattaneo

If the battery is fully charged with no bad cells, then the starter clinking is a bad ground or positive wire and or starter.

The rough running condition is do to the adaptive lean strategy in the post 87 cars. When the battery is disconnect, the LH will lose its idle speed and 02 sensor memory until it relearns, 10 minutes of engine running time.

jebdog

This sounds like it might be THRUST BEARING failure this is a classic symptom the engine will not crank over on the starter motor until it cools enough. It is an automatic , so I would suggest you check crankshaft endplay and the preload on the flexplate at the flywheel inside the bellhousing.

Randy V

TBF is usually manifested by an engine dying when it is running after it is warmed up, although I wouldn't completely discount the dog's suggestion.

Lizard928

doubtful jebdog due to the fact that when jumped it starts, if it were the TBF it wouldnt stay running

K27

I concur on the bad starter.

jebdog

When the engine is running you have lots of power to continue to machine away the webbing of the block with the crankshaft throw (the idle stabilizer will increase the speed/power)but when starting you only have the rather limited power of the starter motor. So the early symptoms of TBF include inability to crank when hot on the starter motor using a second battery increases the power of the starter motor. He has already doubled up he wiring,replaced three batteries but has not replaced the starter motor. It would be wise to check crank end play flexlate preload before driving it anymore. TBF is not necessarily terminal in the early stages. A quick oil drain might also show signs of aluminum particles in suspension looks like metal flake paint but the real test is front to back movement of the crankshaft. And it could just be a bad starter motor but if it is NOT driving this way could be a bad thing.

SteveG

There is a write-up by one of the gurus for a modification to the starter that involves adding a Ford relay. On some MYs, when hot the expansion is just enough to prevent contact of some component on the starter (??). I think it was on another site, I'll see if I can find it. Of course a new starter would fix it.

Jim bailey - 928 International

The 87-95 uses a different starter than 78-86. So you may not be able to switch starters with your brother. You might try cranking the engine by hand with a wrench/socket on the crank pulley to see how much effort is required especially when hot. I wish you were in the US I could sell you a good used starter for $100. It becomes a question of is the starter bad or is the engine actually hard to turn over especially when hot ? I have had customers who had trouble getting the engine to turn over when hot and it later was found to be a thrust bearing problem. They however continued to drive the car until the damage was so bad that they needed a replacement engine block. The diagnosis in this case has focused on the premise that the starter motor is weak and all attempts have been to correct a weak starter, bad battery,poor electrical connections perhaps it would be good to be sure that the crankshaft is still where it is supposed to be. A couple of the customers who had thrust bearing failures had recently just bought the cars they suspected nothing because cold it started just fine ! and it was cold when they test drove it. I had a local used car dealer in the shop a couple weeks ago and a car he recently sold is probably also having TBF based on what he told me ..He looked at his partner and said "It's OK the guy has had the car long enough." Point is more than one 928 with early stage TBF has been traded in or sold. And the trade in usually will be sold at a wholesale auction only to be resold.