bd0nalds0n

I am going to be doing my first open track day next week, which will be my first time out since I used to autocross my Scirocco in college, which was a pretty long time ago.

Over the next couple years, I'd like to acquire/build a dedicated track car. I don't think I will have the luxury of doing a lot of events in any one year, and have no idea what different kinds of classes there are. I am more interested in the journey, and recognize that my driving skills will develop more slowly than the car's capability, which is really more a function of budget. I am after cheap thrills.

I'd like to get some opinions about which platform would better suit my objectives--a 928 or a 951 with a renegade hybrid conversion.

I am most interested in bang for the buck, opting to choose function over form. I think there are a lot of arguments for the 944 route with bigger displacement (and avoiding lag, etc.), cheaper replacement parts, lighter weight/flickability over the 928 route, but I thought I'd solicit some other opinions.

Thoughts?

Mark Anderson

What I can tell you about racing the 951 is that most poeple that have made them go fast seem to break alot of parts doing it. My guess is that the basic car was designed around a low HP motor and with the added power many of the components show their weekness. In contrast things like axels on 928 almost never fail. Why not start with http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MakeTrack=true

worf928

Depending upon the body sanctioning the events at which you wish to drive, a Porsche with a non-Porsche motor may not be allowed. (This, of course, under the assumption that you are dreaming of an SBC or other non-Porsche crate motor for the 944.)

Jim bailey - 928 International

The 944 Spec racer Class PCA POC is an excellent way to learn to race....stock motors lots of rules,most rules keep racing more affordable. And competition with nearly identical cars ,weight INCLUDES the driver. The cars can start out as a $1,500 944 evolve into $10,000 racecars, which is almost nothing for a racecar !! The low power puts a premium on smoothness and carrying momentum which are good skills to learn no matter how much power you have. But Brian your best bet might be go find an old Scirocco.........

Rich9928p

My '79 Euro with 5-liter V8 (5-liter '85 928 block mated to '80 Euro S top end) will out run most 951s (and most everything else, except the cup cars) except those 951s with high boost (and they do seem to blow headgaskets or throw rods every season). On the local tracks I shift about 50% of what any other 911, 944 or 951 shifts, the V8 torque enables me to run in 3rd gear around most twisty stuff. My view is since I shift less, the clutch will last longer and the drivetrain suffers less "peak" loads, so it should last longer then the other guy's who are rowing the shifter like crazy. Get a V8 and enjoy it.

bd0nalds0n

Well then my existing '86 NA 944 might be a good candidate to strip down. It's high mileage--around 225k miles, and not many people have expressed interest at buying it. I think the car is in pretty good shape to begin with (i.e., I wouldn't put it in the $1,500 category); however, I don't think it's exactly in the $4k category either.

Is there a handy link to the PCA/Spec class 944 whatever?

Curt911

I'd love to see someone do the V8 Busa based motor with twin turbos in a 951!

puyi

If i Dream, i would like to race w/ 928...GT cup version

If I am more realistic, I would chose 951 w/M030 equipement and 250 hp. something like a turboS. Then turn it to a track car with only few goals to improve. weight, weight, weight is the enemy

You have to be careful about front suspension, especially the failure of control arm which are not designated for racing, you should prevent the failure by replacing the original one by higher quality stuff. With race experience, you will certainly find that original suspension is not as stiff as you want etc...

The engine is an "usine à gaz" (in french something like chemistry factory) and the casing is subject to oil problem.

still, I think 951 would be more efficient than a 928 for half the price.

STL

Rich9928p

Many people fall to the false assumption that you just strip down a high mile car and put it on the track. This line of thinking often ruins the day for many people, the car owner and those who slip and slide because of problems. These old cars often blow hoses and spew coolant on the track, throw rods and throw oil on the track, or suffer other breakdowns that cause delays.

Any car that goes on the track should have a complete check-up and worn parts and hoses should be replaced. As a minimum the rod bearings should be changed. Other good ideas are an upgrade to racing spec brake pads, new rotors (the old ones are bound to be worn past spec), probably replace the brake master cylinder (losing brakes the track isn't a good idea).

Jim bailey - 928 International

Rich of course has some excellent points about maintaining ...The POC rules are on this site....www.porscheownersclub.org/ - 2k [url] ..click on GCR 2005 at the top of the page for ALL THE RULES !

bd0nalds0n

I should have been more specific: My intention would not be to take a car "as is" and throw it onto the track after taking out the interior. Some modifications have already been done, like Koni yellows, and turbo sway-bars. I think a brake upgrade would be in order. And naturally all the belts, hoses, etc. Your point about rod bearings is a good one. At some point I think an engine rebuild or swap would probably be in order.

As I indicated, I'm really looking for the best-fit "platform" upon which I can embark on a multi-year project. And since the "if I had it to do over agains" are a foregone conclusion, my preference is to temper this as much as possible, rather than buying/building a car high on budget, but with me low on experience.

Jim, thanks for the links, I'll take a look.

Jim bailey - 928 International

The best thing you can do is spend some time WATCHING the group /club with which you decide to run . Get the rule book and read and understand what you can and can not do in each different class find out how many cars run in each class and see how equal they are in times. Talk to those people in a class and learn as much as you can about what they recommend doing ,which car they wish they had, even what their racing budget totals per year. The moment you must trailer your racecar the costs escalate ....open trailer truck,closed trailer bigger truck, bigger closed trailer Motor home........then where do you store them .... Higher race classes most run slicks that might be $1,000-2,000 or more per weekend. Modify your car too much and PCA/POC has you racing against Anderson and Fan which may make you feel like a boulder in the river.......as a stream of cars passes you on both sides

sublimate

So what is the cheapest way to get into auto racing? I've done motorcycle roadracing for a number of years, but now I'm getting to the age where I'd like to have 4 wheels (and a roll cage to boot).

Pick up an old GTI or a Neon? Maybe one that's already been race preped? Where does one look for that?

I just moved down here to Florida so don't know the racing scene. What else is there besides SCCA?

Mark Anderson

[QUOTE=sublimate]So what is the cheapest way to get into auto racing? QUOTE]

Online virtual racing. I even had someone ask me to sponsor his virtual car. I wanted to ask him if I could send him virtual money.

Rich9928p

Sorry, but there is no cheap way to get into auto racing. There may be a less expensive way, but there still are expenses. Any of the "SPEC" series are targeted to keep cars as stock as is realistic yet have some improvements for the track. Various groups have spec 944, spec miata, spec mini and other series.

Costs are many:


- your ride: stripped down "old beater" or race prep'd new spec car
- cost of fitting your ride: roll cage, racing seats, wheels, upgrade brakes, engine rebuild, engine upgrade, etc.
- consumables: tires, brakes, fuel, oil, clutch, etc.
- hard parts: what ever breaks
- club membership and event entry fees
- transportation to and from (is your car street legal or must it be trailered, do you then have to have a tow vehicle)
- food and lodging

You can spend as much as you want, often more than you want to spend. When you arrive at an event you'll see someone who either has spent less and is a better driver (yes, skill counts for a lot), or someone who may be a worse driver but has spent way more and has a faster ride. Then there are the guys with million dollar rigs with full shops, pit crews, multiple cars, custom carts to drive around the pit, dining tents, RVs with lounges and A/C and wet bars. It is amazing to see the wide range of enthusiasts.

I'm most amazed by the guys who own vintage F1 and other race cars. They'll come out every once in a while. There is nothing like the sound of an F1 car as it passes you and goes through three gears in the time you shift once!