Chazz

One of the main reasons I bought my '89 S4 rather than a more recent model was to avoid airbags. There is no evidence that they improve safety and there is the big cost downside of periodic maintenance plus a huge recovery cost if they deploy. www.airbagonoff.com has some usefull information about switching the system off legally as well as some good links.

Nicole

Interesting that all the examples given for airbag injuries happened with a Ford Taurus - a vehicle made by a company not exactly known for high standards in safety engineering.

The driving tips are very good, though, and most have been known to me since airbags were first introduced. Nothing new here, except the "no honking" advice - which does not apply to a 928 with the horn buttons separate from the airbag cover.

Unfortunately I'm too blind to see the location of the airbag switches in the sports cars...

I find it interesting that you say there is no evidence that airbags improve safety. The fact that some systems are poorly designied does not mean all airbabs are bad, just as the fact that a Yugo wasn't well designed did not mean that all cars were unreliable...

However, I tend to agree that airbags should be designed as supplemental, restraints, not primary restraints. They were intended as such, apparently because of a low seat belt usage rate in the US.

I am generally not a biig fan of protecting people from their own stupidity - if you want to be ignorant, be my guest, but you should not have the right to sue me, if you get hurt more than necessary in an incident. If you break the law, you should be responsible for the consequences.

If you choose not to wear your seat belt, because your own personal science tells you it's a good thing, that would be fine with me - as long as I don't have to cover the cost for the additional injuries you suffer from being ignorant. That's how it works in Germany, and it's a factor in keeping seat belt usage up, as well as injuries and deaths down.

Airbags have improved those numbers further in the past years. However, many smaller cars have the smaller and less costly "euro bags", which are designed to work only in combination with seat belts. I doubt we will get those here until seat belt usage is much, much higher.

Problem here: We, including the domestic manufacturers, tend to be ignorant until the government realizes the damage and goes overboard in trying to correct. If we had better consumer education (and probably a higher basic education level, too), we might take more responsibility and make better choices while avoiding a lot of trouble.

Amen.

IcemanG17

I agree that airbags "should" be used in concert with seatbelts. However I have witnessed first hand what airbags alone can do to reduce injuries in accidents. In particular I saw a vehicle vs tree at about 25mph...tree won....car totaled, but both passengers (not wearing seatbelts) walked away with minor injuries. I've seen similar accidents (again without seatbelts) where driver/front seat passenger in non-airbag cars both go to the hospital! On the flip side passengers wearing seatbelts always fair better than non-seatbelt wearing passengers regardless of airbags.... Bottom line, drive safe and wear your seatbelt, the 928 is a safe vehicle...short of a brutal head on accident you should be fine.

T_MaX

Heres a link to one of the major players in the Auto-saftey arena.

http://www.delphi.com/products/auto/safety/ops/

Chazz

IcemanG17, sure airbags are great for people who don't wear seatbelts. But if you wear them properly, airbags don't, according to NTSB fatality statistics, provide additional benefit.

Nicole

Can you please provide a link to this information?

JPTL

Nicole, do you recall the specific grounding errors? I realize that the procedure requires a hammer...at least to reset the light, but I'm curious as to what the culprit usually is. I've heard "..a bad ground at the sensor(s)", but where are the sensors? Are you aware of other bad-ground sources?
Jim, I could swear that the manual for my '91 says that both airbags should be replaced after 10 yrs. (I'm too lazy to go downstairs & look at it). It would make sense for Porsche to do this, since airbags' longevity wasn't really know in '91.
I first started hearing about the warning lights going off in 2000 when Ed Ruiz' and one or two other '90 cars' lights went off. Mine went off in '01, and I saw a couple of '93 cars go off in '03...all 10 years from the manufacturing date. I'm sure it's a coincidence, and probably too costly to build a ten year 'alarm' into these things, but it would have been a good liability disclaimer for Porsche.

SteveG

Nicole: Looks like Viribus is at your keyboard. Please edit your post: I'm afraid if someone reports you to Tom Ridge you will end up in Gitmo (Guantanamo)

hacker-pschorr

I dislike airbags - give me a 5-point harness. I know people will say you can't reach anything with a 5-point on. The only two items you should be reaching for when driving is the steering wheel and the shift lever.

IcemanG17

Chazz
I agree that airbags were designed for the fools who don't wear seat belts, goverment tried forcing us to wear seat belts remember....those god awful motorized seat belts of the late 80's...."passive restraints they called them ( & still call airbags)....thank god the 928 never had to use them...I wonder why, some Ferrari's have them (cost $2500 to replace one in an 91 testarossa)

Cameron

I believe that the airbag is a service item after 10 years - but I can't recall the specifics as to why I think that. I believe that I saw it in either the 928 maintenance book or the owner's manual. What kind of service, who knows?!

......Cameron
'91 Euro GT

worf928

From my e-mail digest archives:

$6000 in parts. 15 hours of labor @ $90/hr.
$7350 total to repair just what the airbags damaged.
Plus fixing whatever it was the caused the airbags to deploy.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Seeking S4 Information
From: "Jim Bailey" <jim@928intl.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:02:18 -0800
X-Message-Number: 25

Porsche probably never considered air bags to be beneficial but were forced
to comply with U S laws and consumer opinion . The air bags were an option
in Europe in 1990 . While the air bag might save your life ---- it will kill
the car it blows apart the dash , breaks the windshield , blows out the
center of the steering wheel and if deployed you are "required" to change
all the sensors and the computer control unit ---- Air bag for steering
wheel $800 , passenger air bag $1,200 , dash $1,400 , windshield $900 ,
control unit $1,600 , two sensors $130 .In other words $6,000 in parts
probably 15 hours labor just to repair the airbag damage .That added to the
damage of the accident totals out the car. Most insurance companies when the
initial repair estimate gets above 50 % of the "replacement value " opt to
not start fixing the car , there are always supplements for hidden damage
that will get added to the estimate . ....

Jim M.

Thanks everyone for your input. I've made my decision and plan to disconnect my airbag system entirely. I've studied the wiring diagrams and don't think there is a way to disarm just the passenger side airbag or add a switch. Therefore I plan to remove the airbag control unit. This will make the entire system inoperative. I ALWAYS use my seat belt, and in fact will not move the car until the passenger has also buckled up. As someone stated; the airbag was designed for those too ignorant to use their seat belts.

Jim Mayzurk
93 GTS

CWO4Mann

If I write something really naughty will Lynndie England be in charge of my punishment? Cheers,

Dave

aaron3

Keep us posted on your progress to disable the airbags.