What oil in gearbox is best?
11-02-2004, 03:31 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Airlie Beach, Australia
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
I have recently completed a one million kms (620 000 miles) test programme in some of my heavy trucks using both Castrol Syntrax and Mobil SHC (1) synthetic 75w-90 GL5 gear oils
These oils were used in the Eaton axles of my Linehaul trucks with a 80t (180000lb) - road train - rating. They operate in ambient temperatures ranging from -5C to 40C+ and at road speeds of around 65mph. They climb long 10deg gradients fully loaded too. Typically these lubricants reduce operating temperatures by about 15-20C in my experience. No oil seals were replaced nor any type of mechanical failure occurred in the five year period
After 5 years and the distance noted above both brands of gear oils were suitable for further use however they were changed at my direction. UOA reports are available direct from me by personal request
These oils are suitable for use in a 928 transaxle or auto's diff both meeting Porsche's GL5 and viscosity specifications
"Boutique" oils such as Amsoil, RP and etc. are unlikely to offer any advantages over those oils noted above and are unlikely to be cost effective by comparison
It is a requirement of all GL5 rated oils that they meet the API's shock loading specifications
Regards
Doug
I have recently completed a one million kms (620 000 miles) test programme in some of my heavy trucks using both Castrol Syntrax and Mobil SHC (1) synthetic 75w-90 GL5 gear oils
These oils were used in the Eaton axles of my Linehaul trucks with a 80t (180000lb) - road train - rating. They operate in ambient temperatures ranging from -5C to 40C+ and at road speeds of around 65mph. They climb long 10deg gradients fully loaded too. Typically these lubricants reduce operating temperatures by about 15-20C in my experience. No oil seals were replaced nor any type of mechanical failure occurred in the five year period
After 5 years and the distance noted above both brands of gear oils were suitable for further use however they were changed at my direction. UOA reports are available direct from me by personal request
These oils are suitable for use in a 928 transaxle or auto's diff both meeting Porsche's GL5 and viscosity specifications
"Boutique" oils such as Amsoil, RP and etc. are unlikely to offer any advantages over those oils noted above and are unlikely to be cost effective by comparison
It is a requirement of all GL5 rated oils that they meet the API's shock loading specifications
Regards
Doug
11-02-2004, 08:10 AM
#19
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I don't know about amsoil or redline, but RP is about the same price as Mobile 1. JC Whitney gets $7.99 per quart for the gear lube, and the oil usually runs about $5 per quart.
The #1 reason I switched to RP is because my friends shop carries it, was letting me use his shop to change my fluids before my track event. Did I notice a difference? Yes I did, but my trans fluid had over 30k, and was non synthetic. Will I continue to use it? Maybe, then again I might play around with different brands just for the hell of it.
It is purple and smells better than most trans fluids - so there's one advantage
Doug, do you think Ferrari is pouring off the shelf motor oil into their F1 car? I'm guessing no. How about Nascar since Mobile 1 is the "official oil of redneck racing" think they are using off the shelf Mobile 1 from NAPA?
The #1 reason I switched to RP is because my friends shop carries it, was letting me use his shop to change my fluids before my track event. Did I notice a difference? Yes I did, but my trans fluid had over 30k, and was non synthetic. Will I continue to use it? Maybe, then again I might play around with different brands just for the hell of it.
It is purple and smells better than most trans fluids - so there's one advantage
Doug, do you think Ferrari is pouring off the shelf motor oil into their F1 car? I'm guessing no. How about Nascar since Mobile 1 is the "official oil of redneck racing" think they are using off the shelf Mobile 1 from NAPA?
11-02-2004, 08:48 AM
#20
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi everyone,
thanks for lots of interesting inputs here.
I can tell that when i switched from old dino to Redline synt. on my 81s it made a huge improvement.
No more scratching when shifting into second.
Used the same in the gearbox I later installed from a -89gt with good result.
Have no idea what is in the 90gt I just bought.
Since i have no history of oilchange I will replace it anyway.
Have never seen Royal Purple in Sweden where I live.
Currently in Colorado for two weeks and will see if it can be found here.
If not I will try with Redline or similar again.
Cheers/Peter
thanks for lots of interesting inputs here.
I can tell that when i switched from old dino to Redline synt. on my 81s it made a huge improvement.
No more scratching when shifting into second.
Used the same in the gearbox I later installed from a -89gt with good result.
Have no idea what is in the 90gt I just bought.
Since i have no history of oilchange I will replace it anyway.
Have never seen Royal Purple in Sweden where I live.
Currently in Colorado for two weeks and will see if it can be found here.
If not I will try with Redline or similar again.
Cheers/Peter
11-02-2004, 05:12 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Airlie Beach, Australia
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Hacker,
during the F1 here in Melbourne OZ the Ferrari-Shell realtionship was discussed on TV. Shell's Chemist travelling on the F1 circuit indicated that they prepare special formulation batches of engine oil for specific applications. These range from the length of the practice session or race, the circuit itself and such things as the ambient temperature, gear change frequency and the rev range required and any special metallurgy considerations! The use oil analaysis continuosly and he indicated that the new regulations on engine durability will place special demands on the lubricant and its technology
Shell's Xtra High Viscosity Index (XHVI) hydrocracked Group 3 base stock is used in their race oils which is the same as used in their Shell Helix Ultra synthetic engine oil range
I do not know about Mobil and their race teams in the USA. Here in OZ they do formulate special race oils as needed for the likes of our V8 SuperCars (pushrod engines & 600+hp). This applies to the long distance events including the "24hours" at our Bathurst circuit. The M1 15w-50 SuperSyn base oil was used in racing here until the M1R 0w-30 SuperSyn oil was introduced here (only in racing) about a year ago
Castrol use the gear oil I mentioned earlier in their V8 SuperCar team vehicles but special engine oils are blended for specific events and applications
Generally gear oils are often especially blended at the Manufacturer's request for specific gearboxes. This has as much to do with the metallurgy involved as such things as application and positioning on the vehicle
Synthetic gear oils have been a "fill for life" on many Euro vehicles since about 1985+
Their main advantages over mineral oil are better gear selction
and synchronisor performance when very cold and excellent gear protection at very high temperatures
Very little if any Viscosity Improvers and etc are used in synthetic gear oils and this alone extends their useful life
Some oils - both mineral and synthetic - may work better than another in specific gearbox families and this will be due to their cold pour temperature performance and additive package
Regards
Doug
during the F1 here in Melbourne OZ the Ferrari-Shell realtionship was discussed on TV. Shell's Chemist travelling on the F1 circuit indicated that they prepare special formulation batches of engine oil for specific applications. These range from the length of the practice session or race, the circuit itself and such things as the ambient temperature, gear change frequency and the rev range required and any special metallurgy considerations! The use oil analaysis continuosly and he indicated that the new regulations on engine durability will place special demands on the lubricant and its technology
Shell's Xtra High Viscosity Index (XHVI) hydrocracked Group 3 base stock is used in their race oils which is the same as used in their Shell Helix Ultra synthetic engine oil range
I do not know about Mobil and their race teams in the USA. Here in OZ they do formulate special race oils as needed for the likes of our V8 SuperCars (pushrod engines & 600+hp). This applies to the long distance events including the "24hours" at our Bathurst circuit. The M1 15w-50 SuperSyn base oil was used in racing here until the M1R 0w-30 SuperSyn oil was introduced here (only in racing) about a year ago
Castrol use the gear oil I mentioned earlier in their V8 SuperCar team vehicles but special engine oils are blended for specific events and applications
Generally gear oils are often especially blended at the Manufacturer's request for specific gearboxes. This has as much to do with the metallurgy involved as such things as application and positioning on the vehicle
Synthetic gear oils have been a "fill for life" on many Euro vehicles since about 1985+
Their main advantages over mineral oil are better gear selction
and synchronisor performance when very cold and excellent gear protection at very high temperatures
Very little if any Viscosity Improvers and etc are used in synthetic gear oils and this alone extends their useful life
Some oils - both mineral and synthetic - may work better than another in specific gearbox families and this will be due to their cold pour temperature performance and additive package
Regards
Doug
11-02-2004, 05:17 PM
#22
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by Doug Hillary
This applies to the long distance events including the "24hours" at our Bathurst circuit.
A new racing game for the PS2 has that track. I spent hours trying to master the back woods section - awesome.
Originally Posted by Doug Hillary
Synthetic gear oils have been a "fill for life" on many Euro vehicles since about 1985+
11-02-2004, 06:22 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Airlie Beach, Australia
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Hacker,
The Bathurst circuit is an excellent one - we would love more International involvement in all the events held there. We are so far away from the rest of the action!
I expect the failures rates related to the lubricant will be minimal when related to actual production numbers - these are closely watched when under Warranty and via International Dealer networks
Sometimes people like your mechanic see things that the Dealerships never see!
I always change gearbox and diff oils on new vehicles within the first 2k miles. This gets rid of assembly and production debis and prevents sulphur and other additive deposit build up from mineral oils. Once added the synthetic oil stays there until the rig is sold but irregular sampling and used oil analysis is carried out to "keep and eye" on its condition
Castrol are running a selection of vehicles and various engines on three and five year engine oil change intervals. They are using both synthetic and mineral lubricants. The vehicles are being used in normal urban short trip, heavy traffic, lots of idling type running and the results to date are excellent
Castrol and a number of engine makers will move to "fill for life" sealed engines quite soon. On board continuous oil condition sampling is already happening and many diesel engines are already on 160k miles oil change intervals (OCIs) with no detrimantal effects. My trucks are on 62k OCIs
Regards
Doug
The Bathurst circuit is an excellent one - we would love more International involvement in all the events held there. We are so far away from the rest of the action!
I expect the failures rates related to the lubricant will be minimal when related to actual production numbers - these are closely watched when under Warranty and via International Dealer networks
Sometimes people like your mechanic see things that the Dealerships never see!
I always change gearbox and diff oils on new vehicles within the first 2k miles. This gets rid of assembly and production debis and prevents sulphur and other additive deposit build up from mineral oils. Once added the synthetic oil stays there until the rig is sold but irregular sampling and used oil analysis is carried out to "keep and eye" on its condition
Castrol are running a selection of vehicles and various engines on three and five year engine oil change intervals. They are using both synthetic and mineral lubricants. The vehicles are being used in normal urban short trip, heavy traffic, lots of idling type running and the results to date are excellent
Castrol and a number of engine makers will move to "fill for life" sealed engines quite soon. On board continuous oil condition sampling is already happening and many diesel engines are already on 160k miles oil change intervals (OCIs) with no detrimantal effects. My trucks are on 62k OCIs
Regards
Doug
