hacker-pschorr

I'm more interested in this item than any type of shootout.

mspiegle

me too. give us more info on this... my radiator is in need of help, and I was going to buy the devek aluminum radiator - but if you have something better...

hacker-pschorr

By "SC Level" I'm hoping that means a shorter unit to allow for air intakes over the radiator.

GoRideSno

Absolutely no need to cringe Richard. You are a pioneer in your own right and those comments were in now way directed toward you.

BTW though I have a 32V car running with the laminar flow IC cores in the valley but only half of what you'll use.

Andy K

Jim bailey - 928 International

Like I said......."Then if you are really"lucky" someone simply "copies" the end result and undercuts the price " .......$4,400 with 30 % markup equals $5,720 but includes a $1,000 radiator/fan set up .....that could make a "kit" available for under $5,000 less radiator.............. Apparently having Joe Dyer's supercharged GTS in the workshop has been inspirational ........but all to the good for the consumer ,if some competitive pressures drive down the prices more and more people can join the forced induction party !! That brings this thread full circle "Stroker vs Supercharger" and the lower the cost of the blower kit...............

Old & New

Yes, but *doing* it is another matter. Getting all the little parts together, working out bugs, developing a good PR in the SC market... F.A.S.T. had a "cheap" kit, but look what happened to them.

Shane

A typical responce from you Marc, and the precise reason I buy all my parts and supplies from 928 International and 928 Specailists. You are too critical of anything that does not come from you. Jim and Wally "Give" a lot of free tech support to this list and in return for the wealth of information they "Share", I reward them with my business. Which may be a pittance compared to their overall income but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Tim and Andy both share what they learn and help support the 928 community and we support them back by buying their kits. I even went so far as to buy one of each, and during the tuning of my twinscrew I even got advice from Tim for a system sold by a competitor.
I realize you have spent a ton of money, time and effort developing all of your products and I respect that, but don't show up here once or twice a week and be critical of what others are doing. Maybe you would do a little more business.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Old and New ....good point If talking were all that was required my old very brown 1980 would be a 6.5 liter supercharged intercooled twin turbo on Nitrous.............. Was it Yoda who said "Do not try ....DO ! "

blau928

Hey Andy,

Thanks for the kind words..

EXCELLENT...!!! Compare the temp to the other cores and se if the stuff makes sense to shed some light on efficiency. (Based on Flow rates of coolant etc...)

PS.. I have a Generation 2 design for the 928 that is actually and older design I did before deciding on my current setup that will be workable once Opcon starts building their 500mm cores. This will be extremely interesting, and I will use this on the 6.0L build... The design is very simple, and will allow use of many existing parts, with some new parts needing to be machined..

I'll let you know as soon as I can confirm from Stefan or George the release date for the 500mm cores... LOTS more airflow at lower pressure with minimal presure drop across the surface....

Cheers,

Z

And then you'd be competing against the twin turbo 32v valve cars of Marc and John. You'd have Mark Anderson race your's on the track against Kim Crumb in Marc's.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Z it would not be fair for me to have Mark Anderson driving , I think many may under estimate his abilities as a driver.

heinrich

No you are not.

Carl Fausett

I'm going to raise some points that everyone has missed.

In the question SC vs Stroker, which should I get? I'd respond with "how do you like to drive it?"

Stroker motors, Like positive-discplacement blowers (the Roots, the Twin-screw) bring their boost in right away. That's why the drag racers love them.
All their power and torque start RIGHT NOW. Great for hole shots, lousy on synchros, gears, CV joints and clutches.

Centrifugal blowers and turbos bring their boost in at 3,000 RPM and up - the car is already going 25 MPH or more at this point and all the slop is taken out of the drive train. Much gentler on clutches, gears, and synchros.

These I beleive are basic truths. Even Marc at DEVEK has been previously quoted saying his stroker customers have bought their shares of replacement gears and the like here and there - and this is why. Can't argue with basic physics.

Which brings in another point - I can't beleive, Marc, an engineer such as yourself would say this: You cannot be serious - to think that Turbos somehow acquire their power "free" and non-parasitic? Please!

Well anyway, I guess you can guess which way I'd go - supercharged. And cetrifugal SC at that.

Stroker/Roots/Twin Screw. When the torque comes in that early all you can do is smoke your tires and hammer your drive train. You cannot get the power to the ground. Then you tub your fenders and get some big meats in there so you can USE that torque, and then you start breaking things.

Unique to the twin-screw and the roots is a lower adiabatic efficiency. They produce pressure, but they heat the air much more than centrifugal superchargers do because of the way they produce that pressure. Once again, this is physics and I believe a commonly accepted truth. I am not picking on anybody. Check any reputable source.

So - an intercooler for a twin-screw or a roots needs to be larger than an intercooler for a centrifugal, and there simply isn't room for the proper-sized intercooler in the engine valley of the motor (IMHO) to get it done. By the time you get the right-sized intercooler under a Roots, for example, the SC is sitting out a foot thru a hole in the hood. (And I always wondered how the combat heat gain via convection and conduction when the intercooler is in the engine valley). Once again - I favor the centrifugal because our intercooler can be smaller (we do not have as much heat to remove) and we can place it anywhere we like in the engine compartment.

I have more - but that's my 0.928 cents worth for now.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Anyone else think this thread reads like a "real world survivors" Plot with ever changing alliances ?Carl I was willing to let the "parasitic losses are just parrasitic(SIC)" comment just slide by because the bigger issue is how hot the exhaust valves , ports , and heads get when you restrict the exhaust flow. Porsche used a different alloy for the heads of the 911 turbo , sodium filled valves etc. to help cope with the heat . Even the 85-86 Euro 16 valve engines got exhaust port liners to help control heat normally aspirated at the 310 hp level . The 944 turbo I think has nitrium filled valves (what ever that is ? ) The 944 GTR engine 750 hp has special heads and huge extra cooling jacket along the exhaust ports . The Turbo Porsche SUV directs coolant flow with some 70% as I recall directly to the cylinder heads. Those really cool pictures of turbo 911 exhaust systems glowing red hot which most of us have seen are just one indication of how hot the valves and exhaust ports must be !There is no free lunch ....except at Sharktoberfest

blau928

Jim,

Natrium is Sodium..... Na on the elements table... In Deutschland zey say Natrium..

The free lunch at S'Fest was good...! Thanks...!