onebad928s

im doing some serious thought on the system and i want to here feedback from the makers and those that had them installed. I have the 83 928 5speed that has pretty much been stripped down and simple bolt ons added to the engine(headers,wires and stuff) Now im looking at some of these kits but mostly for the 32v. On the kits offered for the 16v whats safe for the engine as for boost rating? Do you have to upgrade the fuel system if so what do you recommend?Now i see some people running the water to air intercoolers but i also noticed is that the air filter for the SC is in the engine compartment sucking in all that hot air to start out with. havve any of you tried a cold air set up intake as i have. Also the water for the intercooler what keeps it cold to cool your temperature of the in air. Im sure theres a basic answer but for us that are kinda slow . Also the AFM placement, now i hear at or around 3500 rpms the flap is fully open and starts to lean out the fuel but from S/C pressure that flap opens quicker and leans out faster causing detenation on higher boost cars if im correct. So why not put the AFM at the In of the S/C since it draws less air than pushes if im correct? I know a few more questions but before i decide to pay $4000+ plus on a kit i want to make sure its not going to cost me $5000+ plus to fix a blown engine. Im not sure but for those with a NON cis sytem mostly needs to answer these if you can

Lou
83 928 5speed

Shane

On the kits offered for the 16v whats safe for the engine as for boost rating?

Depends on compression ratio and what the fuel system will support.


Do you have to upgrade the fuel system if so what do you recommend?

Depends on how much boost you are trying for and with my kit was included a BEGI fuel regulator, which works well now that I as the "tuner" have a better grasp on what I'm supposed to do with it and how.

Now i see some people running the water to air intercoolers but i also noticed is that the air filter for the SC is in the engine compartment sucking in all that hot air to start out with. havve any of you tried a cold air set up intake as i have. Also the water for the intercooler what keeps it cold to cool your temperature of the in air. Im sure theres a basic answer but for us that are kinda slow.

Air filter on mine is exactly as you describe only because I was in a hurry to get it done and to start enjoyong it. I'll be deleting my condensor fan and moving my filter to in front of the radiator for cooler air. The water for the intercooler is routed from the windshield resevoir to a small air/water heat exchanger for cooling that sits in front of the radiator, from there the cooled water goes into the intercooler in the "V" under the manifold and does its' work and exits back to the resevoir.

Also the AFM placement, now i hear at or around 3500 rpms the flap is fully open and starts to lean out the fuel but from S/C pressure that flap opens quicker and leans out faster causing detenation on higher boost cars if im correct. So why not put the AFM at the In of the S/C since it draws less air than pushes if im correct?

Mine is set up this way with the MAF in front of the supercharger, but with the centrifugal kits this is more difficult to accomplish.

HTH

onebad928s

the last kit i had was a Vortech kit on my 84 and it there was not enough fuel delivered at about 11-12psi. Fuel pressure was at 70-100 psi depending on rpm but that wasnt enough unless the injectors werent providing enough fuel.But Shane you have the 32v and your engine set up is very much different then mine.

Lou
83 928 5speed

Shane

Talk to John Kuhn about what he did to his twin turbo set ups. He converted the barn door to a MAF setup, but not sure what he did with fuel.

Tony

How about this one

The tubing is 3.5 inch. The filter is actually a pretty good size i think....i hope..

The wire and yellow connector is one of 4 K-thermocouples i have set in the intake track to get an idea of temps.
T1 is at the filter
T2 is S/C in
T3 is S/C out (I/C in)
T4 is I/C out.

The device i have to measure the temps will give me T1-T4, T1-T3 and T1-T2. Its not a permanent gauge in the car, just somehting i can pull out and hook up when needed. At a glance i will be able to tell the temp rise across my SC and then the drop across the I/C and the total temp change across the system. The temp stuff is just for my own curiosity and to see what will make this thing tick..and hopefully not KNOCK! Heat kills in a SC and in the enviroment i live in, i need all the help i can get in the summer.
Ive got a couple of other intake setups in mind but this is the one im going with for now. Im somewhat committed with a 4" hole in the fender


As for the 16V cars, looks like Quick Carl has that setup dialed in VERY well!

mspiegle

Shane, I've been playing around with some excess header wrap I had. I wrapped the entire upper-radiator hose, and now with the car at full temp - you can fully grasp the hose and its only warm. I have a heatshield built for my filter that gives additional protection against the rest of the engine bay. After a few hard runs, the filter feels a little warm, but that's about it. I plan to wrap the rest of the intake with some sort of material and see if it provides any gains.

Andy has a neat trick for relocating the air filter, but i'll let him mention that if he wants.

Tony

If i were to devote 1/4th of the time and energy to the intake and the associated reworking of things i have now (fender pic above) this is what i would do. It would be a snap and could easily be applied to Andys set up.

Shane, you need ot look at this picture of how Mark Anderson has the air pick up in fornt of the radiator. Thats what i would do..some variation or form of that.


OR..

Get rid of the plastic shroud directly above the radiator, build a "box/chamber" to route the air over to the pasnger side where it picks up Andys intake system, similair in form to what Mark A has above. A simple square filter could be home made from the stock unit and place in front at a slight angle on top of the radiator...

blau928

Some interesting solutions are being developed..

One thing to remember, is that you can hydra-lock the motor in inclement weather if the air inlet is not positioned properly...

Many of your questions above can be answered based on the required power output desired and the operating parameters of the engine/car. Being blatantly honest with yourself and extremely realistic with your goals in addition to defining a budget will be the best you can do before buying anything.

A CIS engine can be boosted, and it has been done successfully in the past. However, one has to be realistic about the existing system and need for upgrades based on the parameters of the engine's operating environment and power output as mentined above.

All intercoolers are not created equal, neither are all compressors. Again, the entire system must be thought out instead of adding parts because it worked somewhere else, or looks "cool" etc. ALL of the requirements can be calculated, and checked against what any of the manufacturers are "claiming." This is not some "dark" science as many would like others to believe.

An engine is an engine, and it can be made to do amazing things if the operating parameters are properly thought out. Look at Drag racers, your own car, F1, GTP cars, Rally cars etc...

Centrifugal compressor systems use "blow" through for the most part, and positive displacement compressor systems use "draw" through in terms of Air Metering device placement due to the unique requirements of each type of compresor and operating capacity.

I'm sure others will chime in with additional comments on your questions.

Good Luck

Gretch

Murphy's kit routes the air intake to a location where the source of air is at ambient. It works well in concert with many other features of his design.

The whole kit works as a system, with all the engine operating issues worked out well. Design for things like cooling are simple, but seem to me to be very effective. Some of the design components, while obvious when you look at them, are probably considered "secret sauce" by Tim, so I will say no more.