John..

I can be ready to supply the 4.5/4.7 liter 16V twin turbo kits if there is significant interest in them. What is included?

304 Stainless Steel Manifolds, TIG welded
Tial 38 mm Gates, remote mounted
Downpipes with expansion joints
Remanufactured K-24 turbos with No 6 exhaust housings, can entertain Garrett
New Bosch high flow Fuel Injectors
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator and damper system
LARGE Air to Air Intercooler good for 450+ HP
MAF hot wire conversion with signal intercept for programmable fuel curve
All induction pipes, rigid and silicon hose with clamps
Oil lines
Oil Scavenging system
Bla Bla Bla...there is a lot to this, more than I can list here, it looks like what you saw in the pictures I posted a few weeks back...minus the Goldmember action figure.

Here is the deal. If there is significant interest I will tool up and provide the system. Fabricator would like to run sets of two to keep costs reasonable. He is top notch and I won't put my name on it unless it is top notch, period end of discussion. I strongly recommend you build the bottom end to take the boost, that means forged pistons at a minimum. Porsche does this for a reason on blown cars and there are no free lunches here. Build it right and the fat kid won't take your lunch money. This is not a cheap bolt-on setup. It is thoroughly engineered to work on the 928. I've seen the other turbo setups on 928s and I can say mine is the most finalized in design that is available today. For those who know me, you know I don't cut corners and if things are worth doing they are worth doing right. I will even entertain building the shortblocks with the proven Nikasil/forged piston solution...you can then feel free to crank the screw down and have some fun.

I believe I can offer the entire Twin Turbo package for $9280.00

I can build the boostable shortblocks for roughly $3,500 (you supply the shortblock) if you buy a TT system....more if you don't (Vortech guys are welcome too!). This would get you a JE forged piston bottom end, fully balanced to one gram and ready to go...built by me personally. New pistons, bearings, rings, pins and seals. You slap on the heads, cams and intake and install it.

The opportunity is here and now. No takers, then the Goldmember will become another one of a kind twin-turbo 928 that will be sold early next year to fund another seemingly more interesting project.

Shane

No 85-86 package? Come on I need one of each, a stroker too if I can swing it with out getting a divorce.

blau928

Hi John,

Don't take this the wrong way, but for $10K, do you have a dyno sheet for your system installed and running...?

John..

The car has not yet been dynoed, but will be. And....I will ask again for the supporting documents for that 90% efficient intercooler you are making . Not $10K, $9,280.

After this project is gone I am seriously considering the S4 series cars with a set of turbos. As usual, cost is a big issue.

In my mind, if a CS system is worth $7,000 to $8,000, then the turbo system is well worth the difference.

GoRideSno

Seems like a good deal to me. If someone wanted to do it on their own they would likely spend 2-3x what John is asking.

Andy K

John..

There is a lot more to this system than a centrifugal setup for sure. I would also like to think there is more engineering in it as well. Remember, this would include the intercooler with the complete hot wire conversion setup and all the associated goodies. I could cheapen it up, but I won't. Ask yourself this....how much does just a MAF conversion on a 951 cost? I think you get the picture. Callaway's cost to do the real deal in 1983 was $16,000. In today's dollar how much are $16,000 1983 dollars worth?

Andy is on the mark....forget about the extra money (he is right there), you could spend 6 months to a year and still not finish it and become very frustrated... Honestly, the whole project was done on a crazy schedule, but when I set the bar for myself I find a way to make it happen.

Now, where the heck is Goldmember's block?

M Danger

Mind if i chime in?
The maf conversion is pretty cheap right now, couple hundred or so.
I hope you're talking equal length headers.
Go with garret GT turbos.
For all that work you need to pull more than 450, a 951 can get 450, you're gonna need atleast 30-40% more.
When i build my 928 TT ill be looking for about 800 hp(minimum)

blau928

John,

Funny... The specs were from the mfr., and I was given some additional proprietary information that serves to validate the data when considering thermodynamics and other properties of the design..... If you don't believe me, no worries, as my question was just that, a queston as to whether you dynoed the thing yet...

In any event, I am not going down the prove this and that path, as the proof will be on the dyno, and after tuning for efficiency I will post numbers for better or worse..

Being that Andy and Tim have posted results of dyno pulls with their system etc. I thought it was a fair question.. I have not offered anything for sale from my design, and have been asked several times to "hurry up and finish" so that some parts can be sold to interested parties.. To which I say, again, nothing until it is finished (built and tested).. And even then, I may not offer the system as a kit for sale....

On the cost item, I can surely understand, as I have spent an enormous amount of my own $$$ developing my system and prototyping parts, and it is not yet finished..

However, as things are only worth what someone is willing to pay, I was just curious about the $7-8k for an S/C vs a Turbo for $9.28K..... What gives the premium to the Turbo? Uniqueness? Performance? Design? Artistic qualities? Maybe Reeves Callaway can give an answer? Should I ring him up in CT..?

I have fully kept in mind that a DEVEK 6.5L stroker built properly will run about $20k. I am just curious on your pricing philosophy, and a dyno sheet....

heinrich

John I agree. Your work is definitely worth that much. I think what has happened with me is that I've become used to the wonderful low-cost of the superchargers. Since the twin-turbo requires essentially twice the hardware that a supercharger does, I should not have been surprised.

Andy is quite correct .... this is a very good price. I do however think that these numbers start hitting home when out in the open, and therefore IMHO it would be a shame to instal that setup onto an engine that is not going to be the powerhouse that it would have been had it been say 32V; or 5+ litres. Of course the fact that the original car was so inexpensive, must play also into the equation, meaning a total twin-turbo 1978 928 can be had for under $15,000, and replacement parts are cheaper than dirt, ie almost free. Engines can be had for a few hundred dollars. And the cars are very lightweight.

On the other hand, an S4 with this setup would be over $10k, right off the bat [edited] IN ADDITION TO the turbo kit and engine work. A replacement engine for any ANY S4 will be in the area of 3500 - 5500 dollars. So .... that kind of statistic also starts to hit home pretty hard .... Now we're talking about 15k for an ob; or 25k for an S4 ......

chris0626

Mike,
A couple of points I'd like to make:
1. Equal length exhaust manifolds are not necessary... it's all about exhaust velocity, which a properly designed manifold will give you and equal length doesn't guarantee.
2. Garrett GT turbo's are great... the GT3071R would be perfect in this application (IMHO). But for 800rwhp you'd need something like a couple of GT40's (or even larger).
3. As for the actual rwhp #, 450-500 is more than sufficient. The end # matters a whole lot less than 'the area under the curve'. A car with smaller turbo's, making 450rwhp, will be much faster than a car with giant turbo's making 800rwhp, in everyday driving. The 'area' will be so much smaller on the larger setup that you probably won't be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor nearly as much. The only way to give more 'area' on the larger setup is rev A LOT higher... which means even more beefing of the internals, etc... (and of course, a LOT more $$$). I think the price he's got going for this setup is reasonable.

John...
What are the specs on the turbos? I would use brand new units that come with a warranty against defects, etc... I've seen waay too many remanufactured units fail prematurely. If the Garrett GT series is too costly to include in your kit, there are a million-and-one different T3/T04 hybrids that are more than capable (rated to flow anywhere from 30lbs/min to 75lbs/min).

What are you programming the fuel curve with? An EMS or SAFC (or comparable)? Just curious.

What about an A2W intercooler setup (much like or even the same as the MURF S/C setup). I don't know how that would work, as I don't remember how your routing setup is.

Just my 2¢

GoRideSno

I would also like to add that John's system was designed, engineered and built by a patent holding Licensed Professional Engineer, that being John.
His TT system requires more componets, and more complex componets than do any of the SC systems.
His pricing is a bargain, as is mine
Andy K

TeufelHei

Once I get my block apart and assess the suitability for boost....ah who am I kidding, I'd have to mortgage a kidney to pay for it. Anyone here Type B NEG need a kidney?

Seriously though, I am watching with much interest, and if I can find the means to do it I will be on the phone to you ASAP.

In the meantime, back to the salt mines.

Red UFO

Perhaps we could just break into Paris Hilton's apt, steal more of her **** videos and selling them on the net to pay for our Uber chargers?

heinrich

Dude if we broke into that apartment you are most welcome to the videos.

TeufelHei

John...I've been meaning to ask how you went about handling lubrication/bearing issues with the turbines. Also, is there a possible development of sequential turbocharging in the werks? I'm not familiar with the EMS you are using, and I'm sure it would have to be a lot more sophisticated than I am aware of to handle that little feature, but wouldn't it be cool?