PorKen

In researching cam profiles for the 16V, I've had trouble getting an accurate list of the different HP/TQ@RPM figures. The workshop manual has typos and edits and does not always list the euro specs in detail.

(For example, the only place I've found the written 80-82 torque spec to be correct, in ft.lbs., is in the specification attachment of the dealer brochure and the (graph in the glovebox manual). In the WSM, the glovebox manual, and most web sites it's listed as 265, but the metric value, in Newton meters (NM), is 348, or 256 ft.lbs..)

So, if you have them, could you post the figures, preferably in SAE NM (not converted from ft.lb.), with the RPM level, please?


What I have/what I'm not sure of/corrected:

78-79 ROW M28-1/2, HP 229, TQ 250

78-79 US M28-3/4, HP 219 @ 5250, TQ 245 @ 3600

80-82 ROW not S M28-09/10, HP 229, TQ 271

80-83 ROW S M28-11/12, HP 300, TQ 263

80-82 US M28-13/14/15/16, HP 220 @ 5500, TQ 256 @ 4000

83-84 US S M28-19/20, HP 234 @ 5250, TQ 263 @ 4000

84-86 ROW S2 M28-21/22, HP 310, TQ 295

PorKen

Come on people, check your Euro glovebox manuals or dealer brochure tech specs!
...

The torque value for euro 80-82 not S (271) seems high. Too big a jump from the 78-79...
...

BTW: Where's M28-17/18?

Are those Australian or Swiss or something?

Mark

NOT in NM - but here's a cut/paste from the 928 Specialists chart located at: http://928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm#Specs

928 Model
Engine Size/Type HP (SAE) Torque ft/lbs (SAE) Comp. Ratio Fuel Injection System Top Speed MPH 0-62 mph (sec)
1/4 mile (sec) Weight (lbs)
77-79 - 3-auto (US) 4.5L-16v M28/04 219 245 8.5:1 K-Jetronic 140 8.5
16 3373
77-79 - 5-man (US) 4.5L-16v M28/03 219 245 8.5:1 K-Jetronic 143 7.5 15.5 3285
77-79 - 3-auto (Euro) 4.5L-16v M28/02 229 250 8.5:1 K-Jetronic 140 8 16 3197
77-79 - 5-man (Euro) 4.5L-16v M28/01 229 250 8.5:1 K-Jetronic 143 6.8 15.5 3197
80 - 3-auto (US) 4.5L-16v M28/14 220 265 9.0:1 L-Jetronic 140 8.5 16 3385

80 - 5-man (US) 4.5L-16v M28/13 220 265 9.0:1 L-Jetronic
143 7.5 15.5 3351

81-82 - 3-auto (US) 4.5L-16v M28/16 220 265 9.0:1 L-Jetronic 140 8.5 16 3385

81-82 - 5-man (US) 4.5L-16v M28/15 220 265 9.0:1 L-Jetronic
143 7.5 15.5 3351

80-82 - 3-auto (Euro) 4.5L-16v M28/10 229 271 10.0:1 K-Jetronic 140 7.7 16 3197
80-82 - 5-man (Euro) 4.5L-16v M28/09 229 271 10.0:1 K-Jetronic 143 7.2 15.5 3197
80-83 S - 3-auto (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/12
300 263 10.0:1 K-Jetronic 152 7.2 15.5 3197
80-83 S - 5-man (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/11
300 263 10.0:1 K-Jetronic 155 6.6 15.2 3197
83-84 S - 4-auto (US) 4.7L-16v M28/20
234 263 9.3:1 L-Jetronic 143 7.2 15.5
3385
83-84 S - 5-man (US) 4.7L-16v M28/19 234 263 9.3:1 L-Jetronic 146 6.8 15.2
3351

84-86 S - 4-auto (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/22 310 295 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 150 6.7 15.5 3308
84-86 S - 5-man (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/21 310 295 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 155 6.2 15.2 3308
85-86 S - 4-auto (US) 5.0L-32v M28/44 288 302 10.10:1 LH-Jetronic 152 6.8
14.9 3439
85-86 S - 5-man (US) 5.0L-32v M28/43 288 302 10.10:1 LH-Jetronic 155 6.3
14.2 3351
87-88 S4 - 4-auto (US) 5.0L-32v M28/42
316 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 162 6.6 14.7 3550
87-88 S4 - 5-man (US) 5.0L-32v M28/41 316 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 165 6.0 14.5 3505
87-88 S4 - 4-auto(Euro) 5.0L-32v M28/42 316 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 165 6.3 14.5 3484
87-88 S4 - 5-man(Euro) 5.0L-32v M28/41 316 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 168 5.9 14.2 3484
89 S4 5-man 5.0L-32v M28/41 316 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 168 5.9 14.2 3505
89-91 S4 - 4-auto 5.0L-32v M28/42 316 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 165 6.3 14.5 3550
89-91 GT 5-man 5.0L-32v M28/47 326 317 10.0:1 LH-Jetronic 171 5.8 14.1 3505
92-95 GTS - 5-man 5.4L-32v M28/49 345 369 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 171 5.7 13.7 3593
92-95 GTS - 4-auto 5.4L-32v M28/50 345 369 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 171 5.9 14.1 3593

PorKen

Mark,

Thanks, but I've studied those many times. (And I already listed those values above.)

Notice the specs have the typos for 80-82.
...

I'm interested in the RPM levels, in order to compare/contrast the (camshaft specs) for different markets.

For example, which ones are more suitable for advancing/retarding or supercharging.

DaveW

here's the graph from my manual for the 84-86 ROW S (S2 in the UK) M28-21/22. enjoy!



Cheese
DaveW

hacker-pschorr

FWIW - (yes I'll upload the picture soon) my 81 put down 161rwhp and 202 rwt.

So that's 27% hp loss due to the drivetrain on my car.
And a 25% torque loss.

I'm doing a backpressure test on Friday, if that comes out high The CAT is coming off (sorry Nicole) and back to the Dyno.

I know these are not the figures your looking for, but it's all I've got. :-)

PorKen

Dave W,

Perfect, a collection of those would be awsome! Ta vely mooch, laddy!

Look at that, more engines, M28-45/46, S2 with cat! Even a fuel consumption graph!

Could I trouble you for the max written values, please? (Horsepower@RPM, Torque@RPM for both engines)

Here's my serfly graph:


...

Hacker,

A list of actual rear wheel dyno comparisons would be really helpful, but I didn't expect there to be too many stockers tested.

I didn't know you were testing with the cat still on! What do have for the rest of your exhaust?

GlenL

Don't overlook the fine print on the power specs. My car has 300 hp DIN. That's like 7 hp more than hp SAE. I noticed this when comparing some dyno numbers. In the US we think the SAE corrections are "right" but if you switch to DIN corrections you'll get a few more ponies.

Check out that PorKens graph is "SAE" while that Dave W's Euro graph is "EEC." Anyone know if that's the same as "DIN?"

Might seem small, but when you start comparing to the projected numbers it can make a difference.

hacker-pschorr

A jimmy rigged collection of pipe's. The previous owner took off the mid muffler, had a pipe welded in. I pulled off the larger rear muffler for a piece of pipe. The factory exhaust manifolds and CAT are horrible for moving air. The inlet size on my CAT is tiny, it actually squishes down from the two pipes going to the manifolds. This has to be a bottleneck.

Not to mention a CAT designed in the 70's with 90,000 miles on it cannot be flowing much for air either.

2V4V

BTW- PorKen you had a little typo...'Nano-meters' are a very small unit of length. 'Newton-meters' are a unit of torque.

True, there is a difference between SAE, DIN, and JIC HP numbers. As long as you stay in the 'apples to apples' realm, it's no big deal. If you start doing JIC v. SAE v. DIN, they're all close, but they are never exactly the same.

Look on the bright side, it used to be much worse with gross, net, and about 10 other different 'continental' HP metrics that were formerly used.

You can convert it all to Kw and Nm (Kilowatts and Newton-meters) if it makes it more straightforward. There's a ton of calcs on the web that will do this for you, so you don't have to look up the formulae.

Greg

DaveW

alrighty, max written values:-

M28.21/22
horsepower - 228kW (310bhp) at 5900rpm
torque - 400Nm (40.8kpm) at 4100rpm

M28.45/46
horsepower - 212kW (288bhp) at 5750rpm
torque - 400Nm (40.8kpm) at 2700rpm

The M28.21/22 is a 4664cc engine with a 97mm bore, 78.9 stroke and 10.4:1 compression ratio.
The M28.45/46 is a 4957cc engine with a 100mm bore, 78.9 stroke and 9.3:1 compression ratio.

daveW

Vilhuer

For Lempäälä event in June I did small presentation regarding 928 engines. Here's table where I think should be all known (to me at least) variants execpt boat engines. All hp and torque numbers should be in DIN or EEC, think they're same.

PorKen

2V4V,

I'll correct that.
...

Dave W,

Thanks!
...

Vilhuer,

That's great!

How/where did you collect the numbers? Did you convert some from ft.lbs?

Paul D

Porken - Here is the curves from my '82 manual:

Paul D

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