GlenL

Dave A.,

I'll work on those two once I'm done with this guy. He's at the track whenever I am. My wife has tried to talk sense into him but he's still at it.

Acceleration is fun. 1/4 mile runs are fun. Let's have fun.

(Photo by Ernest Wong...for a change)

Mark

WOAH>...I think I might not have been clear in my original post.

I have NOTHING against 1/4 mi runs...I LOVE acceleration (I definitely get a LOT of use out of that pedal on the right!)...

There have just been a lot of posts/links/stories about 928's being beaten off the line by many a 'lesser' car. My point was - though 928's are very strong from almost any speed (or a dead stop) to almost any speed, there are many 4 bangers out there, and modded out ricers, that are faster 0-60, stoplight to stoplight, and 1/4 times....It's just not the #1 strength of a 3500 pound Porsche.

OVERALL - INCLUDING 0-60 & 1/4 mile - everything taken in to account - there are VERY FEW cars I would rather have than my sharks.

blau928

Ahem Gentlemen,

I just have to add these few words...

Paul,

I must be the zero person, as I used to live in Germany for a bit, and I am quite familiar with the A24 from Berlin - Hamburg, and the A9 Berlin- Munich. Driven actually in my old business partner's 85 928S with 330hp (My S4 is USA Spec.), and in some of the other cars I owned while there. In addition, all the Openroadracing guys in 928's get up to Autobahn speeds several times per year. In addition, very few areas of the Autobahn remain unrestricted. In addition, the cost of petrol and road tax, and ins. would make many of the US 928 owners think several times about driving their cars at elevated speeds for some length of time. $125 + to fill a 928 with Super bleifrei in Germany... Sort of permanent Track Time. (100 octane is $6 per gal at Laguna Seca, my home track) As for Jail, I have never been arrested for exceeding the posted speed limit as of today. Yes, I have exceeded the limit many times in the USA, and when charged as such, paid the fines accordingly. I just had my latest ticket resolved, and that was given to me for triple digit driving.

I am not condoning everyone do this, and I do drive slowly at times, and other times... Well...... V1


Andy,

Autobahn does exist in the USA. Even in CA. One can exceed the posted speed limit in certain areas, at certain times of the day, however, under advise of counsel, I will not say where and when. (But, I do have proof of max speed encounters with the CHP in lovely CA... Vehicle Code 22348b). Again, I will not say where, as I surely do not want to have my fave stretch of road patrolled... If you make it to Norcal, I'd be happy to show you though. Oh, I just found out that you can be arrested for violating 22348b......and no, I was not arrested..

Now for the point originally made in this post.. Any vechile can be designed or reconfigured to be successful in any type of dedicated motorsports competition for the most part... By that I mean that due to the rules of F1, a Mini Cooper would have a difficult time bearing any resemblance to its origin if reconfigured for F1 etc..

Racers do this all the time... I would suggest we look at the drag strip, road race courses, and other events. many configurations of teeny and large cars on all the venues. Mostly, none of the specific competition cars bear a serious resemblance to stock, from the factory. They have in most cases ALL been MODIFIED by their owners to compete in the specific events..

With this being said, I am sure that I or others could design a 2-3 second 0-60mph 928. It would only involve calculating the weight ratios, necessary power, and redesign of the suspension to get the power to the tires tractably... Oh, and a reasonably large budget....

Hell, I wish to reconfigure my S4 to similar performance levels of the Mc Laren/MBZ SLR. I just don't want to write my friendly Mercedes dealer (whom I like and know) a check for $400k plus fees etc. and wait a year or two. And as it is the Pebble Beach Concours D'Elegance this weekend, I just saw an SLR in the flesh for the first time today, I just got some more inspiration to continue.

My $.02

Cheers,

docmirror

Well, being new to the 928 forum, but being an old hand at the 1/4 mile journey, here's a 928 novice opinion. This car is good at many things. It's fair at the 1/4 mile jaunt. Mid 14 second times is nothing to sneeze at, and I"m rightly proud of the number, despite not being competitve in the stoplight throttle-mash against some of the MitsuHondaYota varieties. It is small comfort to encounter some mini-FWD monster that can do you in at the stoplight. Would they ever catch me if we kept going? Probably not, but on the street, that'll get you arrested.

I've spoken to some of the rice rocket owners, and they are geared appropriately. We would use a 4.34 or 4.55-1 rear gear for about a 28 inch diameter tire, with redline of 6500 on a chevy SB. This would seem to be about right for the 928 breed. We have 2.2-2.73 ratio with a 1-1 final gear ratio. Since the manual trans is rather a close ratio, the torque point is hard to reach from the start. but easy to maintain once in the band. So, I don't do any stoplight racing. It's hard on the equipment, and not very gratifying against the VRs, SIs, GTSRs. Ask for a ride in a rice rocket sometime, it's noisy, rough, and you're surronded by plstic and foam. Conversely, the 928 will do 130MPH all day long and not raise a ho-hum. Illegal in any location in the US. So, go tracking sometime. If your skills are appropriate, you'll have a heck of a good time and come out sweating, but with a giant smile.

YMMV,

Mark

Blau/doc...

thanks - you guys got what I was trying to say in the original post...

Cameron

Acceleration is fun. Let's face it. These cars were not designed for it, but depending on the model, they are pretty good at it anyway. Mine is a daily driver, and I get challenged every single day of the week. Sometimes, by a couple of fat guys in a utility truck, some times by ricers in a Mitsu, sometimes by kids in Daddy's Benz, sometimes by - well you get the picture. I probably only play with about 1% of the folks. My biggest determining factor is not if I think I will win or lose, but if it is a safe environment. A 0-60 launch with open road - no traffic. Merging onto light traffic freeways. Etc. Drag racing on a busy street - never. Zig Zagging through multiple lanes of traffic - never.

Anyway, my GT has proven to be pretty good at this old muscle car game. I read car mags, so in most cases I what the car beside me is capable of. I know that there are many cars quicker than mine. Sometimes I am surprised, but not often.

By the way, if you want to beat the ricers everytime, take a page out of their book. Changing the final drive ratio is expensive if you try to do it in the tranny. Go with one of your ricer friends to the local wheel and tire shop and get some 13" wheels and tires. Final drive should go up about 20% or so, your 0-60 will drop like crazy (if you can keep from spinning the lug nuts off of the wheels) and you will look like you belong to the local ricer club! Hell, maybe they will even throw in some neon accent lighting for free!

......Cameron
'91 Euro GT

mspiegle

[QUOTE=Mark]
There have just been a lot of posts/links/stories about 928's being beaten off the line by many a 'lesser' car. My point was - though 928's are very strong from almost any speed (or a dead stop) to almost any speed, there are many 4 bangers out there, and modded out ricers, that are faster 0-60, stoplight to stoplight, and 1/4 times....It's just not the #1 strength of a 3500 pound Porsche.
[QUOTE]

Nice flame. Sounds like you need one of Andy's kits to open your eyes.

bcdavis

Well, I think that what he was trying to discuss, was the stock 928's strengths and weaknesses.
Not what a stroked or supercharged 928 can do.

It's more a comment about how people sometimes post about how they are surprised or shocked
that the 928 gets beat in a drag race. When, in reality, we should not expect to win a drag race,
unless we are driving a car with an engine and drivetrain made for it.

A stock 928 is not really made for drag racing.
So until you supercharge it, or stroke it, etc, people should not even expect to
win many drag races. But yes, drag racing on the street is the most common
competition in the USA. Rarely do you have an open highway. But many times,
even in the city, you can have a clear stretch from one light to the next.

So I think owning a car that does well at dragracing is a good thing to have.
But I would not want to sacrifice the looks of my 928, or the comfort, for the ability
to beat people at street races. The comfort and style is much more useful and
enjoyable to me. So yes, at some point I may do something to make it more
competitive in drag racing. But for now, I prefer it's other features...

Ron_H

I must say that what Mark originally said echos my sentiments. The 928 is designed as a GT car... period. The 928 is not an American creation. Ask yourself how 1/4 mile races (stoplight to stoplight, on-ramp, etc.) came about. . In our self proclaimed wisdom and belief in the lie about speedlimits being good for us, and a lack of an interstate system, we bought into this mindset and created machines that would excel at such "contests" that do little to define what real cars are expected to do, like be reliable over a great variety of road conditions and for a long period of time, turn well, stop well, be ergonomically designed to allow their drivers to operate them effectively for long periods of time, be light and efficient (!!!), and most of all, outstanding brakes. European means of comparing cars emphasize endurance racing and started over real roads (LeMans, Targa Florio, etc.), and for long periods of time(24 hours). And this continues to be emphasized in rallying which fetches much more attention and respect there than here. It is an evolved adult attitude dealing with real constraints on machinery that is recognized as being superior. Witness how well our P cars age and perform.

But finally, Laguna Seca is planning to end the masquerade of the American LeMans Series that has kept it a 3 hour sprint race rather than a true endurance contest like its real namesake: in October there will be a 4 hour race into darkness there for the ALMS series cars. It is a start, but until there is at least a 12 hour race, the name ramains misleading. Maybe it will evolve into a west coast event to compare to Sebring.

Perhaps Americans have yet to achieve a sufficiently mature attitude to keep their attention focused for more than 15 seconds. I certainly don't include all the members of this board in that catagorization and realize that it is a stereotype. However, I am not impressed by a drag race anymore....it puts me to sleep, literally, to watch at the track. And I really don't care whether or not some other make of car can out accelerate my 928 for a quarter mile ....and then slam on the brakes. Nor do I care about impressing other members of this society by pretending to adhere to their standards of judgement of any machine , rites or rituals, just to feel accepted by them. But then, hey,.....I'm no longer an adolescent either.

mspiegle

Its a shame you're too "mature" to have fun anymore.

Nicole

I have no complaints about "off-the-line" performance of my stock S4. None of those who have annoyed me enough that I actually bothered to show them their place in the automotive pecking order, has ever outperfomed me. Maybe I pick those "fights" wisely enough, in the rare cases that I do. And I always step off around the speed limit and hope the other guy gets the ticket after he shoots past me.

Richard's writeup about the Autobahn and Autobahn style driving in California hits the nail on the head. I admit, I don't have a V1, but I also haven't had a ticket in 5 years or so (that was the cheapo ticket in Kansas). While I rarely sustain triple digit speeds for longer periods of time, they are not rare because they can be reached so quickly in a 928.

Either way, getting from A to B fast, with fun, and in style is enough reason for me to own a such car. The occasional win at a light is no more than an added bonus.

But then again, as Ernest said: I don't have testosterone...

Jack '84 928s

I out ran one of those new mercades once with a v6 in it on the highway. Some guy around 35 or so was driving and thought it was fast. I beat him and then he flipped me off lol.

Ron_H

Oh yeah, I have an awful time enjoying a superior machine at speed for hours on end back and forth across this land of ours. It pains me no end hour after terible hour as I live my individual life in suffering bacause I am too "mature" to let my insecurities trigger the abuse and misuse of a well designed machine not intended to live for a few short pointless seconds. Come to think of it, I have suffered this way for years, even when I was an adolescent and owned American cars. For some strange reason I was not impressed by that activity then either, but lived around it because I lived here and not in another society.
I greived for relief as I chose not to drag my Chevie or Plymouth Fury, and even more when I switched to Porsche with its puny little engine in the "wrong" place. And then there was that smile on my face when I drove that funny little furrin car up and down roads like Highway 1 for hours and hours; I guess I was just hiding my sorrow at not being able to assert my manliness in a tire smoking burnout (of course I had to buy my own rated tires). Autocrosses have been another agony for me. Why wouldn't they let us just race each other in a straight line? What was all of this turning, braking, and shifting for anyway? And we did that at driver's school also. What a pain to endure. It was so miserable an existence I continue to have trouble at night sleeping just thinking of it. I suppose I will never get to experience the sophistocation of such an extended and intense application of eye-hand coordination that is required by such activities in response to changing, demanding and unknown road conditions such as one is likely to encounter in one quarter of a mile. Whew. Well, I guess I just haven't been one of the lucky ones, eh? Mis-spent youth for sure.

rob rossitto

don't hear any of the stroker or FI guys complaining...seems like a straightforward enough fix...just add a few $$$ and presto! nothing like a little update to cure all that ails...

pappy92651

I was running 0-60 times of 4.6 seconds in my S4 with automatic transmission. I have not checked my new time but now I have 18" wheels and 285/30ZR-18's on the back. With a custom torque converter, GT cams, and a bunch of other mods the car is a rocket.

It's about what you want the car to do. 928s can be very quick and fast, both. Andy and Murph have it down with their supercharging approach. Strokers have a place. There are still other ways to obtain performance. The fact that the car handles so much better than others is a huge incentive to make it perform.

My personal choice is to make the 928 perform well at any given speed, but then again I am not a purist. A good question: How many people who buy Porsches leave them bone stock (I mean no mods at all) ???