Oil Questions
07-29-2004, 09:52 AM
#1
Instructor
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Oil Questions
I've read the Aussie site as well as other info re: Mineral vs. Synthetic. Ultimately, as long as you change your oil at a reasonable interval...it may not even matter. BUT...for those of you who do the mineral oil thing (which I do at 2500 MI intervals...I ask a question. Is there an advantage to running conventional 'racing formula' versus the 20/50 regular or 'max life'. I have 61K miles on my '91 GT and before I bought it, the original owner used Mobil 1 10/40. My mechanic who I respect greatly and who runs two race teams has me using 20/50 Max Life. Do any of you minerlites have any experience using for example the Valvoline VR-1 Racing Formula? Thoughts are appreciated...not looking for arguments.
07-29-2004, 10:05 AM
#2
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07-29-2004, 04:46 PM
#3
wino5150. Ive used a few of the VR1 products (20/50 and 40). I use the VR1 40 in my boat motors and like it alot, and currently the 20/50 in my Pantera.
Now......get this. When I first bought my 81' 928 I put in M1 15w/50. I could immediately hear/feel a smoother running motor. (believe it or not). Later on I did one change and tried a 20/50VR1. The motor just did not sound as "smooth" as before (Needless to say I swapped back to M1 15w/50), but here was the strangest thing you may not believe.........
I had a small drip under the car, bou't 25cent size when shut off (w/M1). When i put the VR1 (20/50) in that was much larger.........which you'd normally hear just the opposit. When I switched back the oil drip was minimal at best. My only answer to that may have been that the M1 held up better after warming up and on a hot day than the VR1. Not scientific at all, but just telling you what I saw.
So to answer your question..........The VR1 stuff is still very good (also has a higher zinc content which is good for the bearings)...........although I'd hightly recommend the M1 15w/50. (especially for the much colder climates, there is no comparison in protection compared to minerals............and if you wanna see........ put a quart of 10w-30 and some M1 in the freezer, wait until 30degrees for 6hours, and pour both side-by-side.........a picture tells a thousand words)
Bob
Now......get this. When I first bought my 81' 928 I put in M1 15w/50. I could immediately hear/feel a smoother running motor. (believe it or not). Later on I did one change and tried a 20/50VR1. The motor just did not sound as "smooth" as before (Needless to say I swapped back to M1 15w/50), but here was the strangest thing you may not believe.........
I had a small drip under the car, bou't 25cent size when shut off (w/M1). When i put the VR1 (20/50) in that was much larger.........which you'd normally hear just the opposit. When I switched back the oil drip was minimal at best. My only answer to that may have been that the M1 held up better after warming up and on a hot day than the VR1. Not scientific at all, but just telling you what I saw.
So to answer your question..........The VR1 stuff is still very good (also has a higher zinc content which is good for the bearings)...........although I'd hightly recommend the M1 15w/50. (especially for the much colder climates, there is no comparison in protection compared to minerals............and if you wanna see........ put a quart of 10w-30 and some M1 in the freezer, wait until 30degrees for 6hours, and pour both side-by-side.........a picture tells a thousand words)
Bob
07-30-2004, 10:28 PM
#4
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Hi,
I thought others may have responded to your post too but the engine oil issue - including racing oils - has been well covered here previously and the RENNLIST archives have excellent records of it all
The most significant things I have learned about 928 engine lubricants are;
1 - Always use an oil having a HTHS viscosity of around 4 cSt ( Porsche's minimum is 3.5)
2 - Always use the correct viscosity - not the thickest or the thinnest. A 10w/15w-40 will work well for most if the engine is an average oil user. Check your handbook!
Avoid oils with a 25w-?? viscosity at all costs these are unsuitable and were NEVER recommended for a 928 of any type. They place undue loading on all parts of the 928's lubrication "system" when cold and remain unfiltered for much longer when warming up!
3 - A HDEO mineral "mixed fleet" lubricant (usually 15w-40) is a great choice for most 928s. This type of oil is very robust and has an almost "perfect" additive mix for the 928. Such oils should have "mixed fleet" on the container and the API ratings >CI-4/>SL as well
These lubricants are especially good at corrosion control (in engines used irregularly) and in resisting internal engine deposits from either temperature variations or combustion processes
The 15w-40 versions are suitable for use in temperatures from -15C to 40C
Diesel "only" oils should NOT be used in any petrol engine due to their sulfated ash levels
4 - A synthetic HDEO mixed fleet oil of 5w-40 is probably the best type of oil for use in a 928 in an overall sense. They are at the peak of the engine oil's "pyramid" regardless of all the hype and advertising claims made for certain brands or types
5 - 5w/15w-50 synthetic oils are a good choice in a suitable climate. The Oil Condition reports I have published on here do compare a 15w-50 synthetic oil and a 5w-40 HDEO "mixed fleet" synthetic. The performance of the lighter HDEO oil has been better
6 - If purchasing a normal oil (non HDEO) ensure that it has A3-96>/B3-96> on the label along with "Porsche Approved" or "meets MB229.1". This applies to both Mineral and Synthetic petrol engine oils of any brand. HDEO oils being mixed fleet (primarily diesel) have not been tested by Porsche but will exceed their requirements (see 3 and 4 above)
As noted I live in the tropics on World's driest Continent. In summer we get temperatures about 42C and nearing 45-50C at times. In winter we get overnight temperatures to -6C or thereabouts around this area and Mobil's Delvac 1 5w-40 HDEO works well for me all year round. I use it in many different engine types and models ranging from 500hp diesels to Utes and cars. I am NOT connected to ANY Oil Company in any way at all
Shell's Rotella "T" and Chevron-Caltex-Halvoline's "Delo" are both HDEO synthetics and are also sold in a similar formulation to Delvac 1 5w-40 and available in NA.
These are excellent "mixed fleet" lubricants too as are both Companies ranges of mineral HDEO 10w/15w-40 lubricants and the Delvac range
Some of these leading edge oils use very advanced Anti Wear (AW) additives (amongst the mix) that will eventually find their way into petrol engine oils. Some already have in Mobil 1 0w-30R and in the Shell Helix synthetic range used by Ferrari for instance
Shortly (in September) I will publish the eighth and final Used Oil Analysis of the oils used in my car over about 30k kms and two years - it will be worth reading through
Summary
If you really want to use a "racing" oil of the correct viscosity in normal street use you should use shorter OCI's than those recommended by Porsche unless it is API rated as SH>/CD> or rated by ACEA as A3-96>/B3-96>.
You should note however there will be no distinct cost benefit!
The Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w-40 is an excellent and very modern lubricant - probably the best available anywhere on any "cost/benefit index". Mobil's SUV 5w-40 is effectively a rebadged Delvac 1 5w-40 and one of the worlds leading lubricants in the eyes of most Tribologists
These oils are NOT in the same league as Mobil's old M1 TriSynthetic formulation and it are well in front of most other Brands too
Regards
Doug
I thought others may have responded to your post too but the engine oil issue - including racing oils - has been well covered here previously and the RENNLIST archives have excellent records of it all
The most significant things I have learned about 928 engine lubricants are;
1 - Always use an oil having a HTHS viscosity of around 4 cSt ( Porsche's minimum is 3.5)
2 - Always use the correct viscosity - not the thickest or the thinnest. A 10w/15w-40 will work well for most if the engine is an average oil user. Check your handbook!
Avoid oils with a 25w-?? viscosity at all costs these are unsuitable and were NEVER recommended for a 928 of any type. They place undue loading on all parts of the 928's lubrication "system" when cold and remain unfiltered for much longer when warming up!
3 - A HDEO mineral "mixed fleet" lubricant (usually 15w-40) is a great choice for most 928s. This type of oil is very robust and has an almost "perfect" additive mix for the 928. Such oils should have "mixed fleet" on the container and the API ratings >CI-4/>SL as well
These lubricants are especially good at corrosion control (in engines used irregularly) and in resisting internal engine deposits from either temperature variations or combustion processes
The 15w-40 versions are suitable for use in temperatures from -15C to 40C
Diesel "only" oils should NOT be used in any petrol engine due to their sulfated ash levels
4 - A synthetic HDEO mixed fleet oil of 5w-40 is probably the best type of oil for use in a 928 in an overall sense. They are at the peak of the engine oil's "pyramid" regardless of all the hype and advertising claims made for certain brands or types
5 - 5w/15w-50 synthetic oils are a good choice in a suitable climate. The Oil Condition reports I have published on here do compare a 15w-50 synthetic oil and a 5w-40 HDEO "mixed fleet" synthetic. The performance of the lighter HDEO oil has been better
6 - If purchasing a normal oil (non HDEO) ensure that it has A3-96>/B3-96> on the label along with "Porsche Approved" or "meets MB229.1". This applies to both Mineral and Synthetic petrol engine oils of any brand. HDEO oils being mixed fleet (primarily diesel) have not been tested by Porsche but will exceed their requirements (see 3 and 4 above)
As noted I live in the tropics on World's driest Continent. In summer we get temperatures about 42C and nearing 45-50C at times. In winter we get overnight temperatures to -6C or thereabouts around this area and Mobil's Delvac 1 5w-40 HDEO works well for me all year round. I use it in many different engine types and models ranging from 500hp diesels to Utes and cars. I am NOT connected to ANY Oil Company in any way at all
Shell's Rotella "T" and Chevron-Caltex-Halvoline's "Delo" are both HDEO synthetics and are also sold in a similar formulation to Delvac 1 5w-40 and available in NA.
These are excellent "mixed fleet" lubricants too as are both Companies ranges of mineral HDEO 10w/15w-40 lubricants and the Delvac range
Some of these leading edge oils use very advanced Anti Wear (AW) additives (amongst the mix) that will eventually find their way into petrol engine oils. Some already have in Mobil 1 0w-30R and in the Shell Helix synthetic range used by Ferrari for instance
Shortly (in September) I will publish the eighth and final Used Oil Analysis of the oils used in my car over about 30k kms and two years - it will be worth reading through
Summary
If you really want to use a "racing" oil of the correct viscosity in normal street use you should use shorter OCI's than those recommended by Porsche unless it is API rated as SH>/CD> or rated by ACEA as A3-96>/B3-96>.
You should note however there will be no distinct cost benefit!
The Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w-40 is an excellent and very modern lubricant - probably the best available anywhere on any "cost/benefit index". Mobil's SUV 5w-40 is effectively a rebadged Delvac 1 5w-40 and one of the worlds leading lubricants in the eyes of most Tribologists
These oils are NOT in the same league as Mobil's old M1 TriSynthetic formulation and it are well in front of most other Brands too
Regards
Doug
