hacker-pschorr

I don't have any other intermediate plates to try - only history. Last time this happened, that is what fixed it.

What could cause a premature failure like this?

FlyingDog

T adjusters dragging, springs are dead, or front disc is dragging on the intermediate shaft are the only things I can come up with.

hacker-pschorr

Explain how the front disk draging on the shaft could cause this? The rear disk maybe (or am I getting the mixed up in my head?)

When the clutch pedal is depressed, the pressure plate is pulled away from the disks and intermediate plate. If the front disk stays "stuck" on the flywheel, will that cause the clutch to drag this bad? Seams unlikely.


EDIT - sorry, trying to Rennlist, eat and watch TV - the front plate sticking to the flywheel will obviousally cause the clutch to hang up, still spin when depressed.

FlyingDog

The front disc could hop (for lack of a better term) away from the flywheel and get stuck in a position so that it's not dragging on the flywheel. That position could rest it against the intermediate plate. It depends on where the defect in the splines of the front discs or intermediate shaft is that causes it to stick.

When I took my clutch apart I could find no evidence of the clutch dragging, but it obviously was. Then I took the release bearing out and started turning it. I think the release bearing is all that was dragging, not the discs. My discs have .2-.3mm (~1.1 max) wear and the intermediate plate and pressure plate have under .1mm (.3mm max) wear. I have no idea how old my clutch parts are. If my release bearing can drag the clutch assembly, a friction disc staying in the wrong place definitely can.

BTW, my intermediate disc ring has a good bit of force pushing it back to the rear against the adjusters. I just went out to the garage and pushed on it in both directions.

hacker-pschorr

The only smoking gun is Jim finding the intermediate plate moved away from the "adjusted" location after a test drive.

So, something is either pushing the intermediate plate with excessive force out of adjustment or the intermediate plate is f*cked.

I'm ready to install power-glide 2-speed from a 53 Corvette at this point.

AO

The intermediate shaft probably has some slight wear on it that is preventing the intermediate plate from moving smoothly. Take some valve lapping compond and slide the be-jesus out of the assemly and the clean and re-lube. Guaranteed to be silky smooth!

hacker-pschorr

The intermediate plate doesn't even touch the shaft. It bolts to the flywheel behind the pressure plate.

FlyingDog

Pushed pretty hard on the ring to move the adjusters on mine and they didn't budge at all. Maybe yours move too easily.

Mrmerlin

Hi, Andrew could be on to something here, if the friction disc has taken a set on the intermediate shaft then it could hold one or both of the discs in the engaged position , the valve lapping paste idea might not hurt

hacker-pschorr

That is the whole point of this thread - there is no way to fix the adjusters on the intermediate plate once they loosen up.

I'm on my 2nd intermediate plate with less than 5k of driving.

If the friction plate is "stuck" on the shaft, I fail to see how that would pull the intermediate out of adjustment.

FlyingDog

Ah... I thought you meant the springs weren't doing their job. Peen the pin that goes through the adjuster to hold it in place.

Vilhuer

Each of three adjusters have three small washers which should keep T piece in right tightness. They obviously do their job poorly. Relative has '78 5sp. We are in process of replacing these washers and stud holding them in place with small bolt, nut and spring washers which allows systems adjustment while it's installed and can be rebuild as often as needed. We should see maybe in June how it works out.

Manual car TT is same from mid '80 MY to end of '95.

hacker-pschorr

Jim and I were talking about doing the same thing. What have I got to loose? At this point another $600 for another floater plate that will probably only last until 2008

Cool, good to know. Like I said in the thread opener, a friend of mine has a complete S4 clutch with a flywheel. So if the only thing I have to buy is a clutch fork, IMO it's a worthy swap to avoid this headache.

hupp

Hacker,

First question?

Is the flywheel-side friction disc hanging up on the flywheel or IP? If flywheel, two issues could exist:

1. Wrong friction disc installed in this location -- this disc is designed with thicker springs between the friction material. This is to spring the disc off of the flywheel when the clutch is released. The thicker disc of the two should be installed in this location.

2. Splined shaft is worn in the location of the flywheel disc hub "fit". I have less than 5000mi on a new double disc clutch assembly. My clutch began to exibit the very same symptoms -- released fine for a couple of miles then began to drag badly. I chased my tail quite a bit then ultimately removed the clutch to inspect the shaft, which was the only part I did not replace. I had to look very close and even run my thumb nail across the splines to discover that a small shoulder had been worn into the shaft preventing the disc from releasing. Keep in mind that this is not often evident when inspecting the release of the clutch while static -- the shoulder only wears into the loaded shide of the splines so the disc will only tend to stick when the assembly is rotating.


Which direction does the IP move out of adjustment -- toward the flywheel?

The clutch is designed to self adjust as the friction discs wear -- the IP is effectively pushed toward the flywheel as this occurs. Therefore, if your mechanic is attempting to adjust the IP too far toward the rear of the car (to center between the friction discs), the PP will simply push it back to minimum adjustment. Ensure that your mechanic only pulled back the release arm to spec. travel when attempting to center the IP. Pulling too far back results in a large gap between the IP and pressure plate-side friction disc., thus the IP can be incorrectly centered.

hacker-pschorr

IIRC the IP is moving and staying all the way forward after a test drive. This is a result of the T-pins not holding in whatever location Jim set the IP to.

I see where the issue with the friction disks could cause this type of issue - at the same time, how could the disks being in the wrong location cause the IP to shift?

Like I mentioned before, Jim cut up a bell-housing so on a lift the car could be run through the gears (while the motor is on) and he can watch clutch movement. He said, standing there with a flash light you can see the IP slowly move forward a little bit on the T-Pins each time the clutch is depressed. After a few shifts, the IP is all the way forward and stays there.

So I understand what you are saying, they are good things to check out, however, I still do not understand how the issue Jim described above could happen with a ditry / stuck shaft or disk. If I'm missing something with how this clutch works, please fill me in.

Even if the rear disk were stuck on the shaft, it would stick to the IP causing the clutch to be hung up - the IP would not be under any abnormal pressure to shift out of adjustment (forward). That is not the case, after a few depressions of the clutch, the IP starts to move on the adjustment pins.