Gary Knox

This thread certainly makes it sound like you should NOT buy a Porsche 928 that is not up to date on servicing IF YOU ARE LIVING PAYCHECK to PAYCHECK!!! - ha. Experienced much of that as I've purchased seven 928's over the past 25 years! Some had records, some didn't. All maintenance was up to date when I sold them.
Lots of fun if you can tolerate the maintenance requirements.

Gary

worf928

By “completed” do you mean “on the way home from service the engine seized?”

worf928

I'm going to explain so that my above post is not misunderstood.

I posted

in response to Stan's response

to this:

That last post was rather irksome in that it cast aspersions on Stan and because it used "substantiation" completely out of context.

Anybody that complains about the price of work outside of any context of the specific work... and especially for an intake refresh is demonstrating their ignorance of the effort, parts prices and the level of thoroughness of the outcome.

All of us that work on other people's 928s for money have stories about 928s being dragged to us, or of advising folks over the phone, where the 928s in question have suffered catastrophic engine damage due to 'some shop' doing an intake refresh poorly.

Just because someone told you they were charged $10,000 for a timing belt job doesn't mean that a) you should believe them or b) that the only thing done was to slap a new belt on the gears and max-out the tensioner adjustment.

If you think you can do an intake refresh on the cheap, then by all means do so. Just don't be surprised by the outcome. And consider carefully how you warranty your work.

19psi

Cars being dragged into good mechanics because of bad mechanics applies to every car ever made.

Catastrophic damage after an intake refresh? I've never destroyed or seized an engine in my life. Then again (and I'm sure this will get some panties in a bunch), I've never sandblasted and powder coated an intake and would NEVER buy any vehicle that's had the intake powder coated (which I'm sure is a sizable portion of that $8K quote). It's sad whenever a 928 engine is destroyed, yet at the same time I get a chuckle each time someone posts about that pocket of black beauty that was missed during the cleaning process and trashed the engine within 100 miles. Then there's the others where only a few grains were left behind and will slowly work their magic over time. But damn, that intake and those cam towers look sharp and I'm sure it was well worth the added cost!
8 new injectors? I'll send them to WitchHunter instead. Then for some reason start including parts that have nothing to do with the intake? So yeah, I guess it is possible to get to $8K that way and at the same time scare the hell out of a new guy looking to get into a 928.

Every young person who comes in here looking to buy a 928 gets scared off with the worst case scenario of doom and gloom.
People wonder why the value of 928s stay in the ****ter. Maybe it's due to decades worth of posts about:

These cars are difficult and expensive to maintain.
Parts are getting hard to find!
You're $25K away from a $10k car.
There's only a handful of mechanics left in this world who can work on them.
An ok paint job is $20K. Double that to $40K and you'll be "almost" as good as factory.
Oh my God, the jump post cap is missing!!!
If you buy new and improved parts from THAT guy instead of ME---your engine will grenade, your car will go up in flames as you drive down the road, your garage will go up in flames during the night then spread to your house and kill you while you sleep, or you simply may lose control and hit a school bus full of orphans. I'm waiting to hear of a custom built air compressor that makes 928 tire air, and if you use that other generic tire air, your insurance won't cover you in the event of an accident.

Anyone doing a Google search on the 928 will find decades of this going on. Why would anyone want one of these cars after reading that? Then we wonder why there are countless youtube videos trash talking the 928 or absolutely clueless replies in the BaT comments section.

If anyone thinks a 928 is difficult to wrench on, do something simple on a Cayenne like change out the starter, alternator or engine mounts (especially on a turbo).
Anyone who thinks 928 parts are difficult to find has never owned a vehicle that truly has unobtainium parts.
A Camry may have cheap Chinese parts available from Autozone (that have a 50/50 chance of being dead right out of the box), but OEM parts from the Toyota dealership will be just as expensive (if not more) than high quality parts coming from our 928 vendors.

I'm sure the OP was probably scared away from buying that car. If I had seen the post earlier, my suggestion would have been to get a PPI done on it. If it checks out, buy it and start off with fuel lines and power steering hoses and then see where it goes from there.
If that car looks as good in person as it does in the video, it'll be really hard to lose $8K on that deal.

carsRlife

I will send it to a nearby shop for them to check for the play.. what happens if there's more play than there should be?

carsRlife

this is quite a scary list... do all cars require this? is it due with mileage or time? or both? any tell tail signs that its necessary?

carsRlife

Yes despite all the warning signs, I bought it. To begin with, I'll send it to a shop to have them inspect thrust bearing issue and tell me what the source of all the leaks is..
After that, I'll decide if its worth keeping or not. I'm praying for a miracle

carsRlife

How much Seaform would be mixed in? Can I add it to the oil currently in the engine (its old oil) or should I drain old oil and add with new 20W50?
I also have an additive by Liquimoly that I was going to add to my 2001 CLK55 but haven't done it yet. That also has developed noisy lifters
https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/ca/hyd...004.html#20330

NewToPig

The liquimoly additive does work at least in my 986. I would run one can of seafoam in the car for 15 minutes at a no load high rev (ie sitting still) then swap for quality oil (to flush the junk and carbon). But priority number one IS JUST releasing the drive shaft clamp bolt and checking thrust play. Do not order, buy, think about anything else until you answer this one question.

If the play is excessive YOU MIGHT be able to replace the bearing if it hasn't trashed the block. If it has plan on a new motor.

Mrmerlin

I offered my advice based on the results of doing this work, and I know what it takes to do the job well.
Like I said for an S4 intake refresh to be done this is usually the tipping point for an owner to sell the car.

A DIY owner can certainly do this work , and I encourage every one that I talk to to get their hands dirty on their own machine.
That said the parts I outlined are what I find get replaced or rebuilt during an intake fresh.

That does not mean every car will need it BUT,
if the intake is original and never been off ,
and over 100K miles are on the clock
then that list will be pretty much spot on.

NOTE this info is not meant to scare any potential new owner off,
and most of this info is also included in the FAQ thread.
Rather its meant to make a new owner aware of the potential costs.

The best thing a new owner can do is research the FAQ before they look for a car,
it will usually cost less in the long run to buy a car thats already had the intake done,
as well as the many other systems kept up to snuff.
Than buying a low cost machine that needs this work .

Their is a certain satisfaction of doing this work ,
and then getting to drive the car.
That happens for owners that like to work on their machine.

Steven Harper

I bought an 1989 S4 with 100k miles a year ago that had been sitting for about the last ten years. Biggest issue was the fuel injectors were clogged up and only four of them even fired. Did a complete intake refresh, resealed the cam covers, new fuel lines, new fuel injectors, timimg belt, and various "while I'm in here" items. It cranked right up but I do have the same ticking noise like your video. Thought it was a lifter but now I'm wondering if it's just the injectors. Parts can get pricey but you can save some if you shop around. Of course I did all the labor myself, except for refinishing the intake and cam covers (which were done with Cerakote), which I'm sure would cost more than the parts.

hacker-pschorr

FWIW, using one of our main vendors, here is what I get for a parts total:



Sensors can be tested & if good, and the connector is fine, leave'em alone. I've never replaced a functioning ICV and never will.

Powder coating varies by region so I left that out. By no means is that a requirement anyway.

This is also why keeping records is important. I did an intake refresh on my 87 and left the Intake / Cam cover's alone. I didn't have time to do anything with the finish.

MAF / LH rebuild should be done immediately if no record of them being done. There's also no urgency to doing the intake refresh, it's not like a timing belt.

From here ye'all can argue parts markup and labor costs.

Darklands

I have only S Cars but there is every time something to fix.
For us in the old world it's easier to buy from vendors who cooperate with Roger because of the silly custom Rules .

In humid climate you need things like this new.

Rotten away,

Wrong one for an 86 S, should look at the 85 parts car

Mrmerlin

Eric thanks for putting together that list, those are some of the major things that you need for your intake refresh.

Roger also has comprehensive list.

One of the reasons for recoating the intake with powder is so to return the injector bores to the original size.
NOTE when you remove the injectors on an S4 they usually take the PC coating with them,
this will then make the port a bigger diameter.
Re coating the manifold restores this diameter so you dont get intake leaks.

NOTE the S4 injector lower O ring is also a special size,
If your not using the stock O rings make sure to measure your O rings on the injector for ID and OD.
as not all replacements are the exact same size.

For your list a few things , a few more additions and notes.
the Porsche upper and lower rad hoses are about 85.00 and 125.00 each,
I dont recommend the URO hoses they are very thin and will require new smaller clamps.

1 inch id coolant hose from the WB to the hard line,
1 bleeder hose from the WB to the tank,
NOTE this hose and the 1 in hose usually has a damaged internal surface.
1 radiator drain plug,
1 vent port for the top of the rad. ( might be NLA)
2 knock sensors,make sure to get Bosch
Flappy rubber cap,
1 temp 2 sensor
2 manifold intake gaskets,
2 side cover plate O rings,
2 lower manifold to upper manifold gaskets.
1 oil fill spout with O ring
GB oil block off plate
I usually swap in a new oil fill spout as the original is warped thats why its been leaking,
and an oil block off plate , I use the GB version , not sure how much that part is now.
4 vent hoses from the cam covers
2 ICV hoses
2 plastic junctions for the MAF boot.
2 cam cover gaskets
26 bolt seals
8 spark plug port seals
26 sealing washers
4 vent port O rings for cam cover vents
6 end caps seals,
5 oil block off pins.
NOTE make sure to verify these oil block off pins have been upgraded when you remove the cam covers ,
otherwise you could get a low oil pressure situation.
2 rear coolant port gaskets,
2 gaskets and O ring for the WB,
NOTE the WB has to be removed to fit the GB oil block off plate.
Their might be other block off plates available that fit without WB removal
.New bolts for the side plates unless the originals are in good condition.
I usually replace the PS tank and the Hi and Low pressure hoses since everything is apart and old.
The dampers and FPR should be checked usually you will find one leaking.
I suggest to replace all the of these parts if one is found to be leaking.
1 PS tank
1 Hi pressure PS line
1 curved PS supply hose
4 three way rubber junctions
2 four way rubber junctions
6 ft of new hard vacuum line hose,
12 rubber elbows,,
1 blue check valve,
5 or 7 way junction
1 heater control valve,
1 short hose ,
1 coolant cap.,
a set of V belts.
1 air cleaner.
1 hood pad and installation.
1 dipstick the originals are usually broken.

My last PC job was my cost 650.00.( prices went up.)
This included stripping these parts and recoating
the intake manifold and,
both side plates in Porsche silver with clear.
The cam covers with 2 colors silver with red letters and then clear,
The engine cross brace in gloss black with clear.
I also get 4 new low profile bolts and washers for the cross brace.

This is a more complete list, if your charging a customer you should be doing all of this work IMHO.
NOTE so they wont have to pay to go back in and rework something that didnt get done.
If your a DIY you should also be following along with this.
Yes this is mission creep

worf928

@hacker-pschorr Your prices are pre-‘20 or there are several e-bay specials on your list. And … check quantities.