icsamerica

Michelin PS 4S also pickup rocks. Early in the Summer I purchased a set on FB market place... Brand new take off's with just a few hundred miles and late 2022 date codes. They were close by and price was very right so I snagged them quick. When got in front of them I noticed the sellers Brand new Mercedes AMG sport something sat on the driveway with what appeared to be new tires. This seemed odd, who would swap out one of the greatest tires there is for something else but I surmised the driver wanted all seasons. When I ask the seller why he took the tires off, he said they were the best tires he's even driven on but then looked down at the gravel driveway and said they fling rocks so I changed them as to not chip my paint. I don't have a long gravel driveway so these tires will suit me fine.

928gt

My comment about the Veyron was in reference to the P-Zeros not being good enough for street use for his 928.

And, as it turns out, he's not going to be using them on a 928 - he's going to be using them on a 944. A 500 to 900 lb lighter weight makes a huge difference, so the A052s may in fact be a better choice for his 944 than they would be on a 928.

I moved on to racing, but when I first started to take my street cars to the track some 25 years ago, it was always on "good" street tires (Pirellis or Michelins) - because the three track days a year did not justify being scared sh!tless the remaining 99.9% of the time whenever I saw a pothole on the road or the skies opened up. Once I started doing it more frequently, I bought a second set of rims on which I put DOT-legal R-comps and I changed the wheels the night before when I also bled the brakes. It was a much better, cheaper and saner option to go that route.

ador117

Bonjour,
for track use I use now Nankang ns-2r semi slick.
I need to improve my driving level to take advantage of them!
And they cost less than Michelin ps4.
At the end of the track cession they are super clean… the Michelin use to be damaged after a track day…
cheers

ador117

I use these tires on my Peugeot 406 coupé V6 (230 hp, same weight than my 928).
On the same track I did the same average time than with my 928 with the Michelin… And I destroyed the brakes…

With them now I feel much better the car!
looking forward using them with the 928 on track I know well!

ador117

On street I did not try wet conditions.
Negative point, with the 928 they are super noisy.

hacker-pschorr

1. There are 17 different variations of P-Zero tires, seven of them are classed as all season.
2. The Veyron rides on bespoke Michelin Pilot Sport PAX tires
3. The Pagani Huayra rides on Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R
4. The P-Zero tires in question here are the Rosso (Collezione) and CINTURATO P7 (Collezione)
5. Greg Brown has commented more than once he feels the P7 variant isn't suitable for any 928
6. He clearly stated he was looking for a street / track tire. Not just a street tire. My personal experience with P-Zero's on a few different vehicles, I wouldn't run any of them on a 928 street or track.

Irrelevant
But on that note, he has a 944S2, one of the the heavier variants of the 944 family at 3,000lbs.
My 1979 928 weighs 2,900lbs and my 81 is 3,150lbs

The early 16V cars are significantly lighter than the S4 / GT / GTS variants. If weight was a serious factor in your comments, you would have asked what year 928 he had.

928gt

Irrelevant. I would think that the primary consideration for a vehicle that gets driven mostly on the road under various conditions is occupant safety on the road. If you are willing to compromise road-holding manners and safety on a vehicle you regularly drive on the street to maybe gain a second a lap during the handful of track sessions you might do in a season, I would respectfully suggest that you need to reevaluate your priorities.

I am afraid the weight of the vehicle is indeed relevant, but you do have a point about me not asking what year his 928 is. I am glad you and others took that into account. We now need to find out his camber settings and what his cold and hot tire tire pressures are as that is also relevant in order for us to give him the best possible advice of which set of two (bad) tire options to run.

hacker-pschorr

It's very relevant. You're acting like there's only one P-Zero option when in fact there are over a dozen and the two here in question many 928 folks have shared a very low opinion of. Yet you say they are more than adequate for a 928........

You're blowing this so far out of proportion, you make it sound like we're talking about installing soft wrinkle sidewall drag radials on a Prius or running Hoosier A7's in the rain.

All tires are a compromise in one way shape or form. No tire does everything perfect. Otherwise there would be maybe 5 tires on the market. Suggesting that running a super 200 series tire on the street is compromising safety is the most asinine thing I've read on here in a really long time. Last time I checked this thread wasn't about winter driving or crossing the Serengeti.

Maybe you missed this response:
Are you going to tell Jim he needs to reevaluate his priorities?

Yes weight is relevant, but in this case you're just trying to save face since the weight difference between your typical 944 and 928 isn't enough to make the A052 a good / bad option between one or the other. My 944S is "rated" at 2,822lbs but in reality it's over 3,000 due to being a fully options car with larger wheels, LSD etc...

928gt

We're talking about installing tires that cannot evacuate any appreciable amount of water on a daily driver car. Period. It's exactly the same story with Michelin Pilot Cup Sport 2s or Pirelli Trofeo Rs. If that is the most asinine thing you've read on here in a really long time, I am afraid that is a reflection of your level of understanding considerably more than mine.

While I have heard of Jim Corenman and am aware that he has probably forgotten more about 928s that I will ever know, when it comes to tires and their performance, I'm afraid I likely have him beat by an order of magnitude. I have been instructing at various HPDE events and race schools for the last twenty years, six months a year with two track days every week with two different students each day on average. That adds up to a fair bit of mileage, experience and even crashes, so yes, I will absolutely take my own experience and that of the other instructors who spend a lot of time in both the driver and passenger seats of all sorts of cars in all sorts of weather. I mean no disrespect to Jim, but what exactly is his depth and breadth of knowledge and experience here that you are referring to and hold to be truer above all else? Having driven on those tires on some pleasure drives on mountain roads and not crashing? I once stuck a fork in an electrical outlet and nothing happened to me - so therefore sticking forks in electrical outlets must be safe. That is the basis of your entire argument here.

Anyway - I am much too old and tired for pi$$ing contests which is what this is now becoming, so I am bowing out. It's a free country and we can all drive on whatever tires we like. Enjoy yours for a long time and in good health.

Duke48

Ok, I made up my mind on the A052, I'll try them. From April to October is mostly dry and for bad weather I have S4 B8 manual torsen + sport diff at the back that will tow a truck out of the drift.

However, just out of curiosity and since we are talking about the subject, there are 2 more options on my market.

1. What is Michelin Pilot SX MXX3 ?
Is it a Pilot Super Sport predecessor or something else ? Here on lobsters( photoshopped as the lobsters look like they're 14 inch rims)


2. I guess Continental SportContact 1 is severely outdated as the Pirelli PZero Rosso?

Adamant1971

I have the Pzeros on my 87 auto and used them for parade laps at Mostport on my 5spd 87 this past summer. I was very impressed with the tire. If I needed 16’s it would be an easy decision.

They are light years better than the Firehawks I ran previously or any of the contis. (I have run most of them)

But supply is limited. About 5 weeks ago there was not a set in Canada. Apparently they only run small batches.

928gt

The Pilot SX MXX3 is made and marketed as a tire for Vintage / Classic 1980's and 1990's Porsche 964, 993 and 930 cars. It only comes in two sizes - 205/55ZR16 and 245/45ZR16 - and I don't know of anyone that has actually run them on the track (at least not on this side of the pond).

Darklands

It‘s an old tire, back in 2008 I had one set on the freshly purchased black S3.
The Conti Sportcontact 1 is a nice tire, stiff sidewalls give you good control but I don‘t see them in the last years to purchase.

Duke48

I have no idea how my guy does it but he has tires available that are not listed on manufacturers' websites. I've read that this is max performance tire, so that is from where I took the PSS predecessor hypothesis.

928gt

It's not a "mainstream" tire - it is a specialty item and probably why it is not listed on their main site (just like racing slicks also aren't listed on the main Michelin site). You can Google it and you'll get some results. Here's a PDF of the Michelin classic tire catalog from last year where you can see that model and the sizes it comes in. I know very little about the compound they use for those, but I would think they are primarily aimed at folks who want to keep their cars as original as possible for concours / show purposes.