Realist D.

Chuck,

The suggestion to change the nuts and not the bolts is the reverse of what you really need to do. I'm sure the reason the wheel company recommends changing the hardware has nothing to do with how long the wheels were in service. Rather, the clamping force exerted by this hardware is probably pretty severe and what happens is the very first time the hardware is torqued on the bolts will stretch, which is what creates the clamping force. On small hardware like you would find on a 3-piece wheel this stretching is a one-time-only deal. If you remove the nut from the bolt the bolt is no longer able to exert the same clamping force when it is re-torqued.

Ask any engineer who knows about clamping force and they will recommend you change all the bolts if you take apart your wheels. If you have spent big bucks for sturdy forged wheels you are degrading them to something less sturdy than a cast wheel by taking them apart and putting them back together with used hardware.

Vilhuer

OK, everyone is using normal 12 way socket on these and con rod nuts also I presume. Was expecting something more refined like $99.99 bits made out of unobtanium. Have plenty of those cheap 12 ways and try to avoid using them as usually only end up in trouble with them.

Erkka

1992 928 GTS 5-speed still could use more tools
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX

Mark Anderson

"The suggestion to change the nuts and not the bolts is the reverse of what you really need to do."

That suggestion came from the wheel manufacture. That's also what Porsche recomends to do on the connecting rods.

MBMB

Chuck,

Shoot some pics of the screws, with measurements, and I'll bet you can find a metric fastener supplier (or a good wheel shop) that will sell you a batch. RH don't make these screws for themselves.

Mark Anderson

"RH don't make these screws for themselves."

They just may do that. Kinesis has their bolts made special for them.

MBMB

For a wheel company to tool up to make quality screws for themselves (as opposed to having them made) would be brutally expensive and inefficient.

But, sure, they just might do that.

Garth S

Just for the fun of it, I checked out some bolts on 3 - pc wheels. Grade 10.9 M6 bolts would seem to be the norm, although I have no knowledge of RH/Kinesis; however, not a bad bet to assume they use the best available, which would unlikely be less than grade 10.9.
The collective clamping force of 32+ M6 bolts tightened within allowable torque pretty much removes shear forces from consideration. Tension is a problem only if the elastic limits of the connectors were exceeded: so, provided the spec. compression of the sealing surfaces was respected on assembly, the bolts are very well protected in service - by an inflated tire which is the near perfect distributor of forces.
The best measure of tension is certainly not a torque wrench - it is a measure of bolt/stud elongnation: for 99+% of what we do, a torque wrench is just fine: Very critical circumstances are addressed via elongation measures, which are set to remain within the elastic limit of the bolt. An example would be con rod bolts, which can be reused; however, as the elastic limit had been approached, the weak link becomes the threading in the nut. This is the 'why -for' as I understand it, and thusly Mark's comment that it is the nuts that are not reused.
As to the issue of reuse of the wheel hardware, it's not too likely that the bolts were stretched beyond a reuse limit ( the practise defining sealing flanged surfaces is frequently set to allow the assembly to 'breathe', but not leak).
If all the hardware were reused, and even a reasonable percentage turn out to be defective, what is the worst case scenario? Would the wheel fly apart catestrophically, or would one or more bolts loosen ( or at the worst, fail) permitting a very gradual loss of air - that may take days! I'll bet on the latter.
The only problem I've had to date with 3 - pc wheels was due to being too gentle on reassembly ( with the same bolts/nuts), and ending up with an air leak: very correctable with a snug on the wrench.

Chuck Z

The learning curve:

1. Only intended to have one tire removed to see the seal between the halves from the inside and to know exactly what I was getting into. First mistake! The genius at the tire store started to take the other front tire off the wheel while I had my back turned carrying out the wheel and tire I WANTED taken off. Well, guess what, not only did this clown screw the lip on the wheel I wanted taken off but he got the other one too! Couldn’t believe it! Guess now I’m going to try and repair myself and if that is not satisfactory I’ll have to have the lips refinished. Argh!!! I need a tire machine!

2. I remove nuts and bolts from first wheel (easy part). Decided I needed to separate the rim b/f I could get to the center and free. Wrong! After I got the first one apart, I decided I could get the center out without having to break the wheel down first. Right!

3. Now I have one wheel in three pieces, one wheel in two pieces both minus the tires and two wheels with tires and only the center removed. Question: The seal is still intact from the factory (pictured), does anyone think I need to break the wheel down and replace the silicone caulking with new? My guess is no, since the center bolts in place from the back of the wheel.

4. I plan on reusing the nuts and bolts unless I can find a high quality replacement.

Here is the first wheel I took apart....

Chuck Z

Here is the second, no need to separate the halves...

Chuck Z

Here is the seal left in tact from just removing the center...

Chuck Z

Here are the rears with tires.....

Chuck Z

This is what my project has turned into.... Wouldn't have even had to break the bead!!!

Garth S

So, assembled like the Gotti's mentioned - rim halves join to bolt to the center. Just lightly lube the seal on the dissambled halves to assure the seal slides into it's slot - and rebolt with your choice of hardware.
The marring ( there's more than one genius employed by tire stores) on the rim edge, if that's where it is, can usually be corrected by gentle 'circumferential' strokes with a flat file - no one will notice.
Wheels look nice!

MBMB

Chuck,

Upon further investigation, it appears that these screws are called XZN, "twelve point," "aircraft," "triple-square," "tri-square," or "double hex" bolts. There are a number of U.S. Government specifications for them; they appear to be widely used in aviation. So if a wheel repair shop can't provide them, maybe a good airplane repair shop can.

[Correction: some of the names describe internally-driven, rather than externally-driven screws. Some of them, including XZN, may describe ONLY internally-driven screws.]

MBMB

Chuck --

Are you going to paint, powdercoat, anodize, or use some other sort of coating? Are you planning to take the coating out to the edge of the center piece, or stop at the end of the spokes? I'm eager to see how it looks when you're done!