TeufelHei

Dave, you rule my friend. Thanks for all the info.

I have to honest, your car (the Euro S) is what inspired me to get the 928 in the first place. Red is not my favorite color, but you make it look good.

Drewster67

I'd go for it - but then again, I'm a little bias towards the Euros.

SteveCo

The stickers on the speedo are easily removed...and if you buy it and want a US speedo, I may have one for you (I'm in the reverse process of removing a US federalized speedo and installing a Euro one).

Overall the interior is better looking than my car...no sport seats on this one...the door speakers are the lo-end variety...hard to tell if the interior is vinyl or leather. The red/gray combo is a refreshing alternative to the red/beige-tan we normally see.

Under the hood does not look too bad from the pictures, but that can be very deceiving. It does appear that the car has been painted...I see slight evidence of overspray in the engine bay...but this could be the photo. Hope I am wrong about this.

The middle of the front spoiler is missing...surprise, surprise. The ride height looks OK, if a little low in the front. I would make sure to check out the front end for signs of encounters with terra firma.

With this kind of mileage (if it jives with the actual condition of the car) and a 5 speed, this car would be worth something like $12k-$15k Cdn...$8k-9k US. If the PPI checks out OK, $8k would be a very good price in my opinion. I think this one is worth the effort to go see and check out in more detail.

Regards,
SteveCo in St. John's

DR

>Under the hood does not look too bad from the pictures,

Yes, it actually looks very original (other than hose mod) and the thing I like is seeing all of the plating of the fuel lines and clamps in great condition.

>but that can be very deceiving.

True.

>It does appear that the car has been painted...I see slight evidence of >overspray in the engine bay...but this could be the photo.

I didn't notice any, where exactly do you see this. Maybe I need to zoom the photo even larger.

Now if you want to see overspray, here is a great example...

83 TX 944

The car has not been repainted, what you see in the engine bay is either a bad pic or wax residue. I just talked to the seller, he has owned 3 928's including the arena red 84 auto parked in the garage. If he said the belts and water pump were done about 6 to 7k miles ago, I would believe him. The seller has worked on all kinds of German cars for many years, specializing in Porsches. He has done alot of the service on my 944 since 1991. Most recently, belts and water pump, which he did by feel at first, but I made him check it with the P9201 tool, cam belt dead on 4.0, balance belt was a little tight. I saw this with mine own eyes. He is willing to take the covers off, if anyone has doubts. I'll vouch for Keith, he is a stand up guy. If I had the money, you would have never seen this ebay ad.

SteveCo

Now, that's overspray! Makes you wonder if the paint cost more than the paper, tape and time to mask it off!

Seriously, on the supersized picture of the engine bay, just look at the areas on the right and left where the fenders attach to the engine bay and just forward of the radiator. On the right, looks to me like a tape line and overspray on the headlight motor. On the left look at the wiring harness and on the headlight raising bar. I could be mistaken on this...very hard to make out such things on digital photos like this.

I can't see any other evidence of a paint job...not that a paint job is necessarily a bad thing. My car was repainted and is as near flawless a job as I have ever seen (short of a chassis up restoration). I guess I would just question one on a low mileage car of this age. Maybe as simple as a faded red factory finish.

Regards,
SteveCo in St. John's

SteveCo

Well, then, if I was in Texas, or anywhere close, I would have a serious look at this one... Sounds like a very fine specimen.

Regards,
SteveCo in St. John's

Scott M.

My concern would be what the true mileage is.

If the car was imported some time after 1985, how many miles were put on it before the gauge cluster was changed? 10K 20K 50K...on top of the 55k it has now.

Also, there must be a serious speedometer descrepency since the speedo head says mph but the added on stickers don't quite line up w/ the factory silk screened ones.

I considred buying this car but the red on grey/green is my least favorite combo. And swapping out a complete interior is an expensive alternative.

Scott

SteveCo

The speedo thing is always disconcerting. I had assumed that the federalization caused the stickers on the cluster (and the Euro speedo retained). At some point later the speedo was swapped out for a US unit. Now what are the chances that the odo was rigged to read the correct mileage with the speedo was swapped...and why didn't they remove the stickers from the cluster at the same time?

At the end of the day, you have to rationalize the condition of the car to the probably mileage. The odo reading is really a non-issue, if the car is in good shape and has been cared for properly. If it hasn't, then the mileage is irrelavent anyway.

It has been speculated on the board many times before that the majority of the older 928s have had failed odo gears at some point in their lives. I would expect most cars of this age do not have truely accurate mileages displayed. That's certainly true of my car...clock shows about 110k miles, but I suspect the real mileage is closer to 125k, as the odo was inoperative for about 2 years.

Either way my car is in great shape and only about 1/2 through it's expected lifespans (in mileage terms anyway)! This one may be too...you will only know for sure with a thorough PPI from a trusted shop.

Regards,
SteveCo in St. John's

heinrich

This is a rare car in the US, and looks close to all-original. I would buy it. I think the value for this car is between US$9,000 and US$15,000 if it has no major issues. The speaker panels are original Euro. Btw if anyone wants to swap Euro door leather or quarters for US door leather or vinyl, bring it on ... just please don't ever cut speaker holes into them, if you do, you're destroying something unique as so many have done.

There is a major difference between US spec '85's and Euro spec '85's. Both are powerful and unique, but I think the Euro takes the lead.

Jadz928

Scott, Steve,
You make good points. Anyone serious about this car should try to procure it's importation/federalization papers. At bare minimum, find out when (and where) the car was imported. If the car was imported years after it's build date, it had plenty of time to tear it up on the Autobahn... mileage not-withstanding. You will find a lot of grey market 928 in bad condition for this very reason (ask Jim Bailey). This one does not seem to have this problem, but you must do your own homework to know for sure.
Mileage is an issue to some and not as important to others. For me, mileage is secondary to the cars pedigree and maintenance history. If possible, try to track down as many PO's as possible, as they may be able to shed some light on the speedo thing (which I find odd/curious).

Pros - H4 lights, no rear bumper guards, 85 BW tranny (possible LSD?), 310hp baby.

If I was in the market, I would be looking into this one (red would be the toughest consideration).

Keep us posted...

EDIT - at a glance, I would say $7-10K. Which could be narrowed down with more specifics/PPI.

Bryan

I dunno. To me that looks like a sweet deal at the BIN price. The '85 Euro is scorchingly fast with the conservatively rated 310hp motor and the shorter, optimized, non-EPA-fuel-economy-enforced gearing. I wouldn't sweat the mileage too much. Like Jim said, it's all about the condition. The amount of wear on the steering wheel and seats and shift **** (the **** not being applicable in this case because it's been changed) are usually more reliable than the odometer in judging the mileage.

It also doesn't appear to have been too heavily butchered by the importers. It still has its H4s, didn't get rear bumper blocks, and probably just got the stickers on the cluster instead of a speedo change. On the downside, the original speedo is in fact gone now, and the importer stuck sidemarkers on it.

I dunno what it has for an exhaust system - these things didn't have cats originally. So you might have to factor in some messing around to pass emissions inspections if they have them where you live.

Bryan

TeufelHei

Is there any way, short of just asking the mechanic, to know if there is an ABS on this particulart car?

Jadz928

It should have ABS. Started in MY 84 for the Euros.

TeufelHei

I wanted to update everyone that cares on the status of this thread.

Bottom line, I WON!

Now for the questions:
I'm going out there in a few weeks to inspect and retrieve this beauty, so there's a few things I need to know.

What things are peculiar to the Euros that I ought to look for?

I doubt seriously that the owner has performed some sort of presto-chango on the engine, but what serial number range am I looking for on the motor (and where the heck is it)?

What type of shocks were the Euro S's equiped with?

It's hard to tell, but it looks like there's dual AC, is that normal?

What kind of gas mileage can I expect on the way back (normal freeway speed 85mph)?

I am going to perform ad-hoc performance tests enroute, what top end speed am I looking for?

I've looked up a lot of this information on line, but I would like the opinion of the forum on things as well.

We're going to throw it on the lift and inspect very closely before driving away. However the nature of things is that I will be performing the pre-acceptance inspection myself. I know what's wrong with my car right now, and will look very carefully for those things. Any advice will help though.

Thanks