1985 S2 no start
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and proposals. I'll go through them tomorrow when I'm back with the car and get the photos of the crank damper, distributor alignment and CE details.
I really appreciate the help and can't wait to get it running 🙄
I really appreciate the help and can't wait to get it running 🙄
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Haven't used a noid, but have checked with oscilloscope. The trace matches the Porsche tech sheet and the ti time is around 7mS, which I think is OK for cranking
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Show pic of harmonic balancer, I think it is green on euro 16 v, that shows timing marks. Marks should be right side up readable when facing engine.
Back to alarm, pls show pic of CE panel or separate plug connection, wherever alarm bypass was executed. CE for 85 ROW car is the newer one with plug fuses, right? Not old vw cylindrical. Pls show also part number of CE panel, up on or near upper edge.
Thanks!
Other oddball things I can think of is that camshaft necks have been known to snap. Very unlikely scenario, but could look okay but be timed wrong.
Another is hidden cross feed electrical shorts behind ce panel.
Another is bad ground. I think 85 ROW has two separate grounds for engine stuff on passenger cam cover like 84 ROW, but not certain. It was an electrical transition year.
Forgive me a bit, you are clearly a trained skilled tech with troubleshooting mindset. Your posted analysis might negate my suggestions and I not be skilled enough to realize it. My input is from empirically working through stuff trial and error, throwing on parts, etc. With 16v 84 ROW.
Back to alarm, pls show pic of CE panel or separate plug connection, wherever alarm bypass was executed. CE for 85 ROW car is the newer one with plug fuses, right? Not old vw cylindrical. Pls show also part number of CE panel, up on or near upper edge.
Thanks!
Other oddball things I can think of is that camshaft necks have been known to snap. Very unlikely scenario, but could look okay but be timed wrong.
Another is hidden cross feed electrical shorts behind ce panel.
Another is bad ground. I think 85 ROW has two separate grounds for engine stuff on passenger cam cover like 84 ROW, but not certain. It was an electrical transition year.
Forgive me a bit, you are clearly a trained skilled tech with troubleshooting mindset. Your posted analysis might negate my suggestions and I not be skilled enough to realize it. My input is from empirically working through stuff trial and error, throwing on parts, etc. With 16v 84 ROW.
So I've taken a few photos
Timing mark aligned at TDC. The small red pointer behind the cover also aligned. I have checked cylinder I is definitely at TDC at this point
LH cam mark correct
RH cam mark correct
Rear distributor mark aligned (to the nearest tooth)
Front distributor mark aligned
I'm pointing to where the immobiliser circuits are reconnected with solder and heat shrink
LH coil connected to front distributor
CE board. Has been messed around with by previous people, but I have checked each output as per the tech documents
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 31,228
Likes: 4,215
From: Philly PA
I went back and read post 9
based on the condition of the caps and rotors these are the following things I would replace
I would suggest to get new caps and rotors,
add in a set of Bosch 7900 spark plugs
The MAF number is suspect and at this point a fresh MAF should be installed,
this will give you the highest chance that the engine will run.
Also on your crank position sensor it would be a great idea to install a new Bosch part if not already done.
Please remove any alarms or other add on systems that you find.
Make sure the wires that come out of the plugs on the lower edge of the CE panel are in their correct positions,
as these connectors are prone to being able to push out individual wires,
then they could get plugged into the wrong pin or just be sitting loose .
Look carefully.
Also check the fuel pump fuse inlet and outlet wires to verify that the power is going out ,
sometimes the connectors on the back of the CE panel stop the flow even though the fuse tests good.
Deoxit 100 is great to put on these connectors just spray it on
based on the condition of the caps and rotors these are the following things I would replace
I would suggest to get new caps and rotors,
add in a set of Bosch 7900 spark plugs
The MAF number is suspect and at this point a fresh MAF should be installed,
this will give you the highest chance that the engine will run.
Also on your crank position sensor it would be a great idea to install a new Bosch part if not already done.
Please remove any alarms or other add on systems that you find.
Make sure the wires that come out of the plugs on the lower edge of the CE panel are in their correct positions,
as these connectors are prone to being able to push out individual wires,
then they could get plugged into the wrong pin or just be sitting loose .
Look carefully.
Also check the fuel pump fuse inlet and outlet wires to verify that the power is going out ,
sometimes the connectors on the back of the CE panel stop the flow even though the fuse tests good.
Deoxit 100 is great to put on these connectors just spray it on
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
I went back and read post 9
based on the condition of the caps and rotors these are the following things I would replace
I would suggest to get new caps and rotors,
add in a set of Bosch 7900 spark plugs
The MAF number is suspect and at this point a fresh MAF should be installed,
this will give you the highest chance that the engine will run.
Also on your crank position sensor it would be a great idea to install a new Bosch part if not already done.
Please remove any alarms or other add on systems that you find.
Make sure the wires that come out of the plugs on the lower edge of the CE panel are in their correct positions,
as these connectors are prone to being able to push out individual wires,
then they could get plugged into the wrong pin or just be sitting loose .
Look carefully.
Also check the fuel pump fuse inlet and outlet wires to verify that the power is going out ,
sometimes the connectors on the back of the CE panel stop the flow even though the fuse tests good.
Deoxit 100 is great to put on these connectors just spray it on
based on the condition of the caps and rotors these are the following things I would replace
I would suggest to get new caps and rotors,
add in a set of Bosch 7900 spark plugs
The MAF number is suspect and at this point a fresh MAF should be installed,
this will give you the highest chance that the engine will run.
Also on your crank position sensor it would be a great idea to install a new Bosch part if not already done.
Please remove any alarms or other add on systems that you find.
Make sure the wires that come out of the plugs on the lower edge of the CE panel are in their correct positions,
as these connectors are prone to being able to push out individual wires,
then they could get plugged into the wrong pin or just be sitting loose .
Look carefully.
Also check the fuel pump fuse inlet and outlet wires to verify that the power is going out ,
sometimes the connectors on the back of the CE panel stop the flow even though the fuse tests good.
Deoxit 100 is great to put on these connectors just spray it on
Fuel leakage past injectors. I pulled fuse 42 with the spark plugs out and cranked for a long time in case flooded to clear cylinders of fuel. Plugs back in and not even a sign of firing.
I've visibally checked all engine earth points, but haven't disturbed them. Same as the coil primary circuits, they remain as they were.
I'm confused. Every bit of me is saying it should start. 😬
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Great thanks. Appreciate the distributor caps and rotors don't look great, but when I remove all 8 spark plugs and lay them on the inlet all 8 have a nice healthy spark. The fuel rail is at 2.5 bar during cranking and the LH Ecu is controlling injection ti to 7mS, now that the maf has been adjusted. Ive also tried starting with maf disconnected to go to default settings. No difference.
Fuel leakage past injectors. I pulled fuse 42 with the spark plugs out and cranked for a long time in case flooded to clear cylinders of fuel. Plugs back in and not even a sign of firing.
I've visibally checked all engine earth points, but haven't disturbed them. Same as the coil primary circuits, they remain as they were.
I'm confused. Every bit of me is saying it should start. 😬
Fuel leakage past injectors. I pulled fuse 42 with the spark plugs out and cranked for a long time in case flooded to clear cylinders of fuel. Plugs back in and not even a sign of firing.
I've visibally checked all engine earth points, but haven't disturbed them. Same as the coil primary circuits, they remain as they were.
I'm confused. Every bit of me is saying it should start. 😬
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
9 Features and Characteristics That Only Porsche People Understand
Verdad Gallardo
I've Written 500 Rennlist Articles: Here's How Porsche Has Changed Along the Way
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Unnecessary Porsches Ever Built (And Why We Love Them)
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche 911 GT3 S/C vs 718 Spyder RS: 10 Categories, One Winner
Joe Kucinski
This Builder Is Turning Heads With Its Slantnose 911 Creation
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche 911 GT3 Artisan Edition Pays Homage to Japanese Culture
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche Reveals Coupe Variant of the Electric Cayenne With a Fresh Look
Verdad Gallardo
10 Porsche Colors That Have More Personality Than Most People
Verdad Gallardo
Guntherwerks' Final Speedster Creation Is the Ultimate Porsche Restomod
Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,162
Likes: 383
From: Johnson City, TN
Bosch CPS or connector are often suspects.
They seem to fail. Quality seems to have diminished.
Grounds should be on right side cam cover.
I almost said passenget-side. lol.
Grounds are brass on aluminum/magnesium, pinned with a steel bolt and cadmium coated washer. Can anybody say "dissimilar metals".
I've seen it happen, but seems too simple. But cps actually grounds there.
good luck, please promise to keep us engaged thru the end game! Gotta see how this plays out.
They seem to fail. Quality seems to have diminished.
Grounds should be on right side cam cover.
I almost said passenget-side. lol.
Grounds are brass on aluminum/magnesium, pinned with a steel bolt and cadmium coated washer. Can anybody say "dissimilar metals".
I've seen it happen, but seems too simple. But cps actually grounds there.
good luck, please promise to keep us engaged thru the end game! Gotta see how this plays out.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,115
Likes: 344
From: Texas
Just on the oft chance: When you replaced relays, did you add relays to any spots that did not have relays before?
Did you replace the relays you replaced with "53" relays?
Among those spots using "53" relays are IV (ignition relay X), XIV (starter relay), XVI (ignition EZF ), XX (fuel pump), and XXV (Fuel injection)
In addition, relay spots III, XVII, XXI, and XXVI should be vacant. If you have relays in any of these spaces, remove them and try to start the engine.
Good Luck
Did you replace the relays you replaced with "53" relays?
Among those spots using "53" relays are IV (ignition relay X), XIV (starter relay), XVI (ignition EZF ), XX (fuel pump), and XXV (Fuel injection)
In addition, relay spots III, XVII, XXI, and XXVI should be vacant. If you have relays in any of these spaces, remove them and try to start the engine.
Good Luck
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Bosch CPS or connector are often suspects.
They seem to fail. Quality seems to have diminished.
Grounds should be on right side cam cover.
I almost said passenget-side. lol.
Grounds are brass on aluminum/magnesium, pinned with a steel bolt and cadmium coated washer. Can anybody say "dissimilar metals".
I've seen it happen, but seems too simple. But cps actually grounds there.
good luck, please promise to keep us engaged thru the end game! Gotta see how this plays out.
They seem to fail. Quality seems to have diminished.
Grounds should be on right side cam cover.
I almost said passenget-side. lol.
Grounds are brass on aluminum/magnesium, pinned with a steel bolt and cadmium coated washer. Can anybody say "dissimilar metals".
I've seen it happen, but seems too simple. But cps actually grounds there.
good luck, please promise to keep us engaged thru the end game! Gotta see how this plays out.
I'll disconnect and clean the grounds on the RH cam over too.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Just on the oft chance: When you replaced relays, did you add relays to any spots that did not have relays before?
Did you replace the relays you replaced with "53" relays?
Among those spots using "53" relays are IV (ignition relay X), XIV (starter relay), XVI (ignition EZF ), XX (fuel pump), and XXV (Fuel injection)
In addition, relay spots III, XVII, XXI, and XXVI should be vacant. If you have relays in any of these spaces, remove them and try to start the engine.
Good Luck
Did you replace the relays you replaced with "53" relays?
Among those spots using "53" relays are IV (ignition relay X), XIV (starter relay), XVI (ignition EZF ), XX (fuel pump), and XXV (Fuel injection)
In addition, relay spots III, XVII, XXI, and XXVI should be vacant. If you have relays in any of these spaces, remove them and try to start the engine.
Good Luck
Ill double check the vacant positions tomorrow in case a previous owner has been busy
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 31,228
Likes: 4,215
From: Philly PA
if the CPS connector is broken then its time for a new part
dont cut corners here ,
lots of things need to be working perfectly for the engine to run at its best.
NOTE with a broken dizzy belt and crumbling CPS connector and a MAF thats out of spec the car is talking to you .
replace these parts as well as the other suggested parts
dont cut corners here ,
lots of things need to be working perfectly for the engine to run at its best.
NOTE with a broken dizzy belt and crumbling CPS connector and a MAF thats out of spec the car is talking to you .
replace these parts as well as the other suggested parts