Jim V

Greg,

Seems like you have a bit of a chip on you shoulder. If you want to start a debate about types of racing, Rennlist has a wonderful Off Topic forum and I'm sure you could get into a nice long multi-paged debate there about the virtues of different types of racing; heck go post "F1 sux, NASCAR rules" and I can guarantee weeks of cyber-arguing.

Nice big ego you've got there, but you plainly show you know nothing about drag racing, and this thread is about drag racing and 928s. Sheesh, isn't getting together with fellow ethusiasts and having a bit of fun doing something new and different part of being the car hobby, or have I been doing it wrong all these years?

Jim V

You said before you move, surely you can get out of packing duties for one evening?

bcdavis

Drag racing as a sport, simply evolved from the typical American street race at a stoplight.
And that is something that most people encounter every day.
Every light on your way to work, you sit next to another car.
At every light, someone could challenge your vehicle,
to see who is faster. They rev their engine, and say,
"My car is faster than yours, and I will accelerate faster,
from this light, to the next block..." That happens all the
time, and it is real life. Road racing, or track racing is
really fun, and requires much more skill. I agree with
that 100%. But I disagree that drag racing is not a real
world sport. It happens every day. Even a mom in her
minivan will try to out-accelerate someone to the next
light, just because she is in a hurry... People try to out-
accelerate me all the time. Even in cars that are no where
near as fast or sophisticated as mine. But they still all try
to show that they are faster. So even if you think it is a
stupid challenge, and a talentless challenge, it DOES
happen every day, and those people will consider their
cars faster than yours, if they beat you with their truck,
minivan, integra, or whatever else. Our cars may be
highway cars, or track cars. But the street is where most
of us drive our cars. And the most common challenge
on the street is a stoplight drag race. So practicing
your launches, shifts, and improving your torque,
and horsepower, is a perfectly legitimate focus.
I think we should keep our cars racetrack handling,
and top speed finesse, but there is nothing wrong
with working to improve 0-60 and 1/4 mile times...

AO

Last spring we had a 928 day at a local drag strip in Milan, Michigan. While none of us we're super stars, I will say it was a ton of fun.

You think you have pretty good reaction times when you're sitting at a stop light next to some middle-aged soccer mom's van and the light turns green and off you go like a bat out of hell. But you really find out how bad you are when you go to the track.

Is it legitimate 928 racing? Pro'lly not. But then the 928 is sometimes revered as Porsche's illetgitimate offspring. All I know is that I had fun as did quite a few other folks and that's what it's all about in my book!

AO

By the way, you can see a few pics of it on my webpage in my signature link.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Andrew makes an excellent point about "reaction time" and one which in my opinion often makes "street racing" rather pointless....... who ever leaves first has such a huge advantage . Without the discipline of the starting tree and the potential to redlight it is seldom much of a " race " . Often you never really know when "they " are racing or when they let up and watch you blow by them (secretly hoping the CHP is just ahead) since there is no FINISHLINE . But every since man climbed up on the back of a horse when the second guy tried it .........he had to "race" the first !!!!! you get your first tricycle and immediately see how fast it will go . I still prefer " drag racing " from one corner to another for 15 -20 minutes at a time . Last weekend at the Streets of Willow well over 2 HOURS . Danny's comment about the mechanical challenge of building his car also makes a lot of sense to me , The drag race is just proof that it works !! Bottom line is enjoy your car any way you wish .........this is not about transportation !!!

bcdavis

Real racing is much more fun.

But street racing happens every day.

It can even be legal, if you just out-accelerate the guy next to you onto the freeway onramp...

Gerry

I love ROAD RACING and I also love DRAG RACING. The excitement and the sounds of the engines. The smell of burt rubber and Nitro Methane is just great! Don't knock it until you try it.

Heck, why do you think every car magazine test feature will include 1/4 mile (Drag) times! If the Drag times weren't that important why are they quoted in the owners manual?

Its a definite measurement for car nuts that us Crazy Yanks demand and compare other makes to, thats all.

2V4V

Chip on my shoulder? Hardly. As I said before, and I'll say again, if you dig it, do it.

I was, however, responding to this "if you don't like drag racing, you're just not right, because we like drag racing" vibe that gets tossed out everytime someone would dare question the relevance of the 1/4. When some folks did not seem to find a 1/4 mile in a car that was neither designed (nor terribly appropriate) for it, relevant, they got the "you don't understand, it takes just as much skill as a roadrace, it's for the everyman, so it if you don't like it, you're an elitist snob" thing. Not a rational acceptance of the limitations that dragging (like every other sport) has, instead, thinly-cloaked class-warfare (here of all places) arguments. And that's the part that really bugs me.

Just like I would support someone who would dare question the usefulness of NASCAR/Fwhatever/WorldRallywhatever, regardless of my like/dislike of the particular style. I may disagree with the other viewpoint, but I'll go for a rational debate instead of this "you don't understand", "you're a snob", ad hominem blather.

Big ego? Huh? There are times when I certainly have one, but sanctioned racing is not one of those arenas. I never said I could beat the best and brightest, (or even the semi-shiny middle of the pack) but I can subtract one time from another time and get the difference. I know what my limited racing skillset is. I have been to the 1/8 and the 1/4. I know what I can do if I put my mind to it. And, once again, I know competitively, on even a local level, I'm no consistent winning -hell, even consistent - drag racer. But, you, me and most anybody else who can shift and launch can get within a second or two of the best performer in the world, in equal cars, in a quarter-mile. That's part of the fun -and it's also part of the reality.

Greg

bcdavis

My argument was that there are far more 0-60 "encounters" and challenges, every single day, than there are opportunities to challenge someone on the roadrace course, or autocross track...

Every single day you pull up next to someone in their Mustang, Vette, Minivan, Truck, etc...
And many of them will try to race you, or just plain try to get to the next light quicker than you.

So even if the "skills" of dragracing are "minimal" compared to roadracing, rally, etc,
the ability of our street cars, in terms of 0-60, etc, is a valid discussion. So if people
want to discuss tires, torque converters, engine mods, suspension, etc, all for the
purpose of going faster in a straight line, I have to say that I think that is a reasonable
discussion, considering how often our "street cars" come up against these challenges...

Jim V

Greg,

I'm sorry, but I've just re-read this whole thread and there is nothing there but a plain friendly discussion until you started ranting; I'm afraid you are reading something into posts that just isn't there.

If you got these ideas from my posts up till that point, I assure you you've taken them for something other than what was intended.

bcdavis

Some people just love to go off on how useless and unchallenging drag racing is, NASCAR, etc...

If you even mention NASCAR or NHRA to some people, they will just go off on a tangent.

I agree with them about the sport of NHRA, or drag racing...
I think most other motorsports are much more exciting and challenging.

But I still see why people like drag racing, and setting up their cars to go fast
in a straight line. Because that is what we do on the street at every stop light...
We are at a dead stop. The light turns green, and we accelerate...

It's just natural for people to compete at that moment...

Jim bailey - 928 International

I quite often drive the very brown 1980 the 18 miles from Newport to Anaheim over the years the only "challenge" I remember was when Tom my coworker pulled up beside me on the freeway and reved the engine in his Hotrod El Camino a couple times and pulled slightly ahead of me . Then as he slowed , with out making eye contact or moving my shoulder I simply shifted from 5 th to 3rd at 65 mph or so , floored the gas and let out the clutch . The very brown 1980 squatted down slightly and shot forward . Tom was so surprised there was no "race" . So maybe the very brown 1980 just does not attract attention , who would want to brag about beating an old faded brown 1980 928 ? .............Picture this ; ricer guy to his friends ??..Yea I pulled up next to this old faded Brown Porsche looked like it was being driven by a homeless guy (cross between Jerry Garcia and Santa with long hair but big , real big ) ... It was one of those 928 ones you know big 944 . The exhaust was kinda loud like an exhaust leak . It was running those funny wheels with holes in them and really small tires all worn out almost no tread It was sitting down real low like the springs were collapsed . Light turned green and I just smoked him "................. Like I said it gets no respect , no challenge but I do find it amusing when I get someone in a "hot car" to follow me into a corner faster than they would have liked .

bcdavis

Hahahaha!

Yeah, the appearance of the car has a lot to do with it...

Paint it yellow, and see what happens.

ew928

Never really see my 88 S4 as a stoplight racer.
Too much inertia (read mass/weight) to accelerate.
But find me some twisty bits and I dive into it with relish.
Nothing like goosing the right pedal as the suspension sets
into the turn.
Feel that Weissach rear do it's thing.
Especially love to see those SUV's with big engines slow
or even brake for the corners. Nothing like feeling the lean.

Ernest (NYC)
Eibach/Bilstein slightly lower than stock ride height.
Even those Michelin Pilot Alpin snows are sticking goodly